Author Topic: Thomas Henry Theobald & Elizabeth Warner marriage  (Read 337 times)

Offline nichbuket

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Thomas Henry Theobald & Elizabeth Warner marriage
« on: Tuesday 01 August 17 20:40 BST (UK) »
Hello all.

I am trying to find out more information regarding the marriage of Thomas Henry Theobald and Elizabeth Warner.  All i can seem to track down is the index listing:

10 Nov 1816
Needham Market, Barking Cum Darmsden, Suffolk,England

I'm looking for any mention of residency/witnesses. Is anyone have any idea where I could track down a copy of the parish record online or able to look it up for me?

Thanks!
Nich
Klein, Comiss, Theobald, Hanney, Bernath, Salomonovics, Yakimovsky, Putney, Barlow, Beard, Gibbs, LeVierge, Tree, Trinder, Carter, Malpass, Crampin, Spurgin, Warner, Parker, Medcalf, Amer, Arnold,  Connelly,

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Offline Annette7

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Re: Thomas Henry Theobald & Elizabeth Warner marriage
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 02 August 17 01:40 BST (UK) »
I'm wondering where the 2nd name for Thomas came from?   Would it be from trees on Ancestry?

He married as plain Thomas, is plain Thomas on the baptisms of his children who, apart from the eldest son Thomas, were baptised at St. Mary Le Tower, Ipswich.

In 1841 his wife is still living in that parish and I would have thought husband Thomas Theobald was the one bc.1795, bur.1/3/1839 St. Mary Le Tower, Ipswich (he would appear to be 10 years younger than her, and was no doubt the Thomas Theobald bp.3/3/1796 Barking, son of Thomas and Ann).

The Ancestry trees show him to be a Thomas Henry bp.1784 St Marylebone BUT this person didn't die until 1862 and buried at St. Pancras on 6/2/1862!!   Also, the trees state said Thomas died Marylebone in Mar.qtr.1841 BUT this person was a plain Thomas who was aged 10!

Whoever compiled these trees seems to have just latched on to a Thomas born around the same time as Elizabeth Warner albeit in London and have him dying in the same place in 1841 when the person who did die then was just 10 years old.   Sometimes when I look at the trees on Ancestry they are beyond belief and those who've submitted them have just haven't checked 'the facts'!

I would say the plain Thomas who married Elizabeth Warner in 1816 was the one baptised 3/3/1796 Barking, son of Thomas and Ann, who died in 1839 and was buried 1/3/1839 St. Mary Le Tower, where the family were living.

So, whilst I can't come up with any other details regarding the original marriage which doesn't seem to be available online (original records at Ipswich Record Office) I feel absolutely sure the Thomas Theobald she married was not the Thomas Henry born in Marylebone, London 1784 who a) did not die in London in 1841 as trees state and b) didn't actually die until 1862.

Annette



Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

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Offline nichbuket

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Re: Thomas Henry Theobald & Elizabeth Warner marriage
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 02 August 17 02:36 BST (UK) »
Thank you.  It was from another tree and I was reviewing my notes, going back to check things...I thought it odd born and death in Middlesex/London but married so far off and children so far off.

I see the burial for Thomas you mention, but could you tell me your source for the 1796 baptism? I don't see that online. If he is 10 years younger then Elizabeth it makes me wonder if she was married prior to Thomas and her maiden name is not Warner...

Also their eldest daughter Susan was born 1818 in Needham where they married. She is the eldest child I have/knew about from family records.  I see a listing for a Thomas baptized to a Thomas and Elizabeth in May 1717 Barking.  That would mean Elizabeth was pregnant before marriage..which doesn't necessarily concern me.  It would raise the question as to why Needham to Barking to Needham within 2 years.

nich
Klein, Comiss, Theobald, Hanney, Bernath, Salomonovics, Yakimovsky, Putney, Barlow, Beard, Gibbs, LeVierge, Tree, Trinder, Carter, Malpass, Crampin, Spurgin, Warner, Parker, Medcalf, Amer, Arnold,  Connelly,

Offline Annette7

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Re: Thomas Henry Theobald & Elizabeth Warner marriage
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 02 August 17 13:50 BST (UK) »
The 1796 baptism is from Suffolk Baptism index on Find My Past.

Just to explain, Barking parish church also covered Darmsden and Needham Market both just a mile away which are adjoining parishes.  The only church in Needham Market at that time was a non-conformist one so you'll find most people born in NM were baptised in Barking.   One of my own family lines lived in Needham Market but all events for the family are at Barking church.

I agree that you need to know whether Elizabeth Warner was a spinster or widow when she married but I note from the census she was born ca.1785 Assington, Suffolk and there was an Elizabeth Anne Warner baptised there at the relevant time.

I'm not sure what the actual statistics are but I think you'll find that the vast majority of women marrying at that time were already pregnant.   More often than not you'll find a couples first child was baptised just a few months after the marriage.

If Susan/Susannah is the one who married Joseph Cole in Ipswich in 1850 then on 1851 census her birthplace is shown as Needham Market (although baptised aged 2 at St. Mary Le Tower, Ipswich) so although events for the family recorded in Barking church records they actually lived in Needham Market at that time.

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline nichbuket

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Re: Thomas Henry Theobald & Elizabeth Warner marriage
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 02 August 17 14:56 BST (UK) »
Thanks! I don't have a find my past account, so while I can search I can never see all the details so I appreciate it.

I also appreciate the info regarding Needham only having a NC church.

I have a number of ancestors who were pregnant for marriage, but have had so many people just complain that that wouldn't have been possible...blah...blah...blah :) It clearly happened a lot.

I see 2 possible brothers for Thomas jr and a marriage for Thomas and Ann, so thanks for everything!

Klein, Comiss, Theobald, Hanney, Bernath, Salomonovics, Yakimovsky, Putney, Barlow, Beard, Gibbs, LeVierge, Tree, Trinder, Carter, Malpass, Crampin, Spurgin, Warner, Parker, Medcalf, Amer, Arnold,  Connelly,

Offline annes

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Re: Thomas Henry Theobald & Elizabeth Warner marriage
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 03 August 17 16:41 BST (UK) »
Taken from Barking parish register

Thomas Theobold OTP bachelor
Elizabeth Warner OTP spinster
married in this church by banns 10th November 1816
He marked X, she signed her name
In the presence of John Garnham (X) and Susan Theobold (X)

Offline nichbuket

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Re: Thomas Henry Theobald & Elizabeth Warner marriage
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 03 August 17 17:03 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much!
Klein, Comiss, Theobald, Hanney, Bernath, Salomonovics, Yakimovsky, Putney, Barlow, Beard, Gibbs, LeVierge, Tree, Trinder, Carter, Malpass, Crampin, Spurgin, Warner, Parker, Medcalf, Amer, Arnold,  Connelly,