Author Topic: Johnson travelling showmen  (Read 4483 times)

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Johnson travelling showmen
« Reply #18 on: Friday 04 August 17 23:00 BST (UK) »
Bash lad, I suspect a few errors with them in 1861 census. Margaret was recorded with surname Johnson when it should have been Chapman. POB of Thomas down as Manchester like most of his in-laws. There were some possible children of Thomas & Margaret Chapman born in Manchester 1860-9.
I was also trying to track T's movements, with the idea that Richard could have been with him.

Child of Richard's 1st marriage ? Richard Johnson, mmn Ely, 1878.
A Richard Johnson aged 13 died in Manchester 1891.
Was Annie Richard's daughter or Annie's ? Births of several Ann/ie Shaws with MMN Shaw in late 1870s & early 80s. What was name of child born in workhouse?

Came across this burial at Rawtenstall cemetery 1882. Elizabeth Johnson (38), abode workhouse, occupation hawker.


Cowban

Offline BashLad

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Re: Johnson travelling showmen
« Reply #19 on: Friday 04 August 17 23:23 BST (UK) »
More than a few errors in all of the censuses.

I don't think any of the ages have matched on any of them so far.

Nevertheless I'm sure it's the right family.

According to the 1881

Thomas Chapman   45 Whitechapel, mid
Margaret Chapman   40 Manchester, Lancs.
Ellen Chapman   20 Manchester, Lancs.
Henry Chapman   18 Manchester, Lancs.
Thomas Chapman   18 Manchester, Lancs.
David Chapman   16 Manchester, Lancs.
Mary Chapman   14 Birkenhead, Lancs.
Margaret Chapman   12 Manchester, Lancs.
Norah Chapman   8 Ireland

(That 1871 was probably wrong, norah was born in ireland, so I'm going to scrub that off.)
WHITEHOUSE- Bromsgrove, WANE - Eccleston, TOWERS - Blackburn & Ribble Valley, COLLINGE - Rawtenstall, THOMAS - Penzance, Whitehaven, Haslingden.

Offline BashLad

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Re: Johnson travelling showmen
« Reply #20 on: Friday 04 August 17 23:36 BST (UK) »
1891 - Piece: 4414, Folio: 38, Page Number: 40.
The now widowed, showwoman, margaret chapman/johnson, plus children.


It's possible Richard Johnsn was with them in 1871 - in Ireland.

WHITEHOUSE- Bromsgrove, WANE - Eccleston, TOWERS - Blackburn & Ribble Valley, COLLINGE - Rawtenstall, THOMAS - Penzance, Whitehaven, Haslingden.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Johnson travelling showmen
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 05 August 17 01:02 BST (UK) »
Yes, I agree that Thomas & Margaret Chapman on 1881 census in Lincolnshire are correct family.  The children whose births in Manchester with MMN of Johnson I found were all present & correct in 1881. Henry & Thomas were twins.
1891 census Glamorgan. Norah's POB was Killanney or Killarney.
1901 Thomas, Henry and David were still show people, in Yorkshire, Lancashire (Heywood) and Durham respectively. Another David Chapman, showman, b. Middlesex, was in Blackpool.
In 1881 they were surrounded by photographers.

Cowban


Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Johnson travelling showmen
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 05 August 17 02:13 BST (UK) »
According to 1891 census young Annie was 11, born in Salford around 1880.  If her age was correct she was born before marriage of Richard & Annie. Richard senior's age was a decade out on that census.
1901 census: Was Richard senior lodging in Sheffield with Arthur Snape, a traveller? I noticed the name Snape before as neighbours of one of the Chapman families.  (I have Snapes but mine stayed in the same place for hundreds of years.)
Cowban

Offline lesleyhannah

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Re: Johnson travelling showmen
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 05 August 17 12:29 BST (UK) »
Thank you all. I spent most of yesterday evening trying to create a draft tree from your info and hoping to decide which certificates if any would help to prove the connections. This morning I have found more replies so I'm hoping the choice will be easier. Any more contributions will be more than welcome and I'll let you know if any certificates arrive. Lesley

Offline lesleyhannah

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Re: Johnson travelling showmen
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 05 August 17 14:16 BST (UK) »
in 1891 George Arthur Shaw (b in the workhouse) is living with his mother's sister Caroline Scott and her husband in Salford.
6 Feb 1892 • he married Emily Crofts in Salford, Lancashire   -
Soon afterwards he moved to London where Emily came from - and apparently never mentioned his traveller roots - family believed they had always lived in east end.

I've ordered a couple of certificates as a result of the suggestions here. Am still working through the references. Thank you all very much






Online heywood

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Re: Johnson travelling showmen
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 05 August 17 14:22 BST (UK) »
Was Annie from a travelling family or did she just marry into one.
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Offline lesleyhannah

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Re: Johnson travelling showmen
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 05 August 17 14:27 BST (UK) »
You've all nailed my problems - when people's dates of birth vary so widely you start to wonder whether they really are the right family - and I'd begun to doubt myself when Annie's daughter seems to have been born before the alleged parents were married - and when the alleged mother had been living elsewhere.
\my head is spinning but I'm keeping all this thread, and am trying to work through it. So far I haven't found Annie's death, but hope to get there eventually.
Maidenstone, where did you get the info about the Chapman's circus in Blackpool please?
You've all been great - thanks again