Need to identify the Army divison/unit in photo

[Teletran]

Hello,  can anybody tell me anything about this photo??   My grandfather (fourth from right standing, scruffy hair with 2 chevrons) is in the photo but no family members alive have any information.  It was taken on the 17-11-1944 at the Vatican.  These officers (?) were taking part in a 'Moral leadership' course.  Can anyone throw some light here?  Many thanks.

[JJen]

Hi,

Welcome to RootsChat 

All the men that I can see with their rank badges visible are RAF.

The officers are RAF Chaplains.

JJ

[MaxD]

The men would have been from a variety of units who had volunteered for/been sent on a short course run by the Chaplains where moral/ethical/low level legal questions of the day would be discussed in a relaxed environment and different points of view shared.  This type of course was still being run in the 70s in the services in Germany.  They tended to remind the brutal and licentious soldiery that there was a world outside their closed environment with problems that need a christian (small c) approach.  I recall that most attended the course reluctantly although there were some regular volunteers who enjoyed a week away being treated gently by the padres!

maxD

[Teletran]

Thanks for the swift reply, RAF, not army, thanks for clarifing.  I have just one more image, are you able to comment at all on this?  I know my granddad did not 'leave for war' until June 1943, he would only refer to it as an 'Oversees Absence'  This photo looks to be earlier than the first.

[MaxD]

Looks very much like a photo very early in his service, best uniform, new looking RAF cap badge.  Is his left sleeve visible in the original?  If so, then the RAF Eagle would be at the top of the sleeve and if he was still in or just out of  training, nothing else.  Later on a horizontal propeller would indicate Leading Aircraftman, three of them in the front row of the other pic.  The pic has both the blouse battledress tunic and the No 1 Dress he is wearing.

maxD

[Teletran]

Unfortunately the original photo does not show any more than the post. The two chevrons means he could have been what rank? The family don't have any of his papers, is there anyway I can find out his 'service' number and apply to the MOD for more information? Thanks again.

[Skoyen89]

Two chevrons means he was a Corporal. 

I would check whether you need his number to apply for his records?  It would make searching easier for them but I think I have heard of others getting records without it.  Have you looked at the MOD records website to check?

[MaxD]

You could look for his number in the relevant part of this document http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2132 but it tends not to work if there are more that one of the same name and the index is not complete!

However, the process is here https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records

The overview document does say you need a service number.  While it is desirable to provide as much information as possible and you do need his date of birth, if you don't have the number go ahead and apply anyway.  The system is well used to missing numbers and is able to do without it.


maxD

[Teletran]

Thanks for your help guys, I'll take a look at the links.