Author Topic: Pronunciation 'Rathfriland'  (Read 3364 times)

Offline OzJane

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Pronunciation 'Rathfriland'
« on: Sunday 06 August 17 05:30 BST (UK) »
Hello,
After years of researching my ancestors originating in Rathfriland, it occurs to me that it would be useful to know exactly how to pronounce the name  :-[
Those of us several generations, not to say continents, removed, could use some local knowledge, please. So, any assistance (did google searches for assistance, no joy) in learning how to say 'Rathfriland', 'Drumballyroney' and 'Drumgath' would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Ozjane
DOWN/ANTRIM: May
DOWN: Morgan, Perry, McKnight
EDINBURGH:  Drysdale
HEREFORDSHIRE: Southan
LANCASHIRE: Waddington, Southan
LONDON Kempe, Whitby
SOMERSET Loxton

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Pronunciation 'Rathfriland'
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 06 August 17 07:34 BST (UK) »
Not Irish but would think rath fry land, drum bally roaney & drum gath might hack it! Might be wrang but!

A drum is a ridge, rath an enclosure/fort & bally a village!

Skoosh.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Pronunciation 'Rathfriland'
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 06 August 17 10:08 BST (UK) »
I think Irish place names are difficult for Australians just as we stumble over some of your towns  :)

A dear Australian friend spent a week with us and she spent nearly the whole time learning to say Aghadowey  ;D
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline HughC

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Re: Pronunciation 'Rathfriland'
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 06 August 17 16:06 BST (UK) »
Aghadowey is easy!  Try Ahoghill instead.

The versions given by Skoosh are much as I would say them, but in case it helps (or merely confuses!) here are the Irish names for two of them:
Ráth Fraoileann  /ra'fri:ln/
Droim Ga  /drom'ga/   [I think that should be an open O, not as in drome]

So it seems rath-free-land would be closer to the original.
And it's interesting that the TH is not pronounced (or even not present) in the Irish versions.

To say that bally is a village is only part of the story.  I believe Baile was equivalent to the Latin villa, meaning not just the "big house" but also the estate surrounding it, where there would also be cottages inhabited by servants, labourers, and tenants.  In time, many such grew into a village or even a town of considerable size, but in rural areas they have often remained as just a townland, a subdivision of a parish with an average size of about 1˝ sq.km.  The Old English word tún that gave rise to the word town is somewhat similar, though in fact it mean an enclosure.
Bagwell of Kilmore & Lisronagh, Co. Tipperary;  Beatty from Enniskillen;  Brown from Preston, Lancs.;  Burke of Ballydugan, Co. Galway;  Casement in the IoM and Co. Antrim;  Davison of Knockboy, Broughshane;  Frobisher;  Guillemard;  Harrison in Co. Antrim and Dublin;  Jones around Burton Pedwardine, Lincs.;  Lindesay of Loughry;  Newcomen of Camlagh, Co. Roscommon;  Shield;  Watson from Kidderminster;  Wilkinson from Leeds


Offline Skoosh

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Re: Pronunciation 'Rathfriland'
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 06 August 17 17:57 BST (UK) »
Shug, I'm just giving the Glesga interpretation! ;D In Scots a toon, as in Milton, Kirkton etc' was more or less a farm, a collection of houses, a ferm-toon.

Skoosh.

Offline HughC

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Re: Pronunciation 'Rathfriland'
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 06 August 17 18:26 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Skoosh.

I think that confirms it, really.  Certainly the ending -ton in place names is OE tún.
It may (possibly) be relevant that the German for hamlet is Weiler, obviously derived from villa.
I imagine that's how the settlements were in the early days.

We haven't quite settled things for OzJane.  I'll try asking my neighbours who have spent all their lives in Cauwnty Dauwn.  Sorry: it's hardly possible to render the Ulster OU sound in writing.
Bagwell of Kilmore & Lisronagh, Co. Tipperary;  Beatty from Enniskillen;  Brown from Preston, Lancs.;  Burke of Ballydugan, Co. Galway;  Casement in the IoM and Co. Antrim;  Davison of Knockboy, Broughshane;  Frobisher;  Guillemard;  Harrison in Co. Antrim and Dublin;  Jones around Burton Pedwardine, Lincs.;  Lindesay of Loughry;  Newcomen of Camlagh, Co. Roscommon;  Shield;  Watson from Kidderminster;  Wilkinson from Leeds

Offline OzJane

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Re: Pronunciation 'Rathfriland'
« Reply #6 on: Monday 07 August 17 00:43 BST (UK) »
Thanks everyone.
Aghadowey - not only can I not pronounce it, I have to copy and paste to make sure I'm spelling it correctly. :D
wee hugh, so it's 'cawnty dauwn' (funny I vaguely recall my grandfather's Ulster accent and the emphasis on the 'fast' at the end of Belfast, not on the 'Bel' as we'd say it in Oz).
Anyway Skoosh, we seem to have 'Rat' (not 'Rath') free (or 'fry'?) land?
'Drumballyroany' for Drumballyroney  and is it 'Drumgat' or 'Drumgath'...?

Feeling quite illiterate though it does cheer me up to think of non-Australians pronouncing 'Woolloomooloo' and 'Nhulunbuy' ;D

Cheers everyone and thanks.
DOWN/ANTRIM: May
DOWN: Morgan, Perry, McKnight
EDINBURGH:  Drysdale
HEREFORDSHIRE: Southan
LANCASHIRE: Waddington, Southan
LONDON Kempe, Whitby
SOMERSET Loxton

Offline QuickDraw

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Re: Pronunciation 'Rathfriland'
« Reply #7 on: Monday 07 August 17 01:49 BST (UK) »
Aghadowey is easy!  Try Ahoghill instead.

Curious wee Hugh ... how is Ahoghill pronounced? I've always assumed it's pronounced the way it is spelt (eh-hog-hill).

Stan

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Pronunciation 'Rathfriland'
« Reply #8 on: Monday 07 August 17 06:01 BST (UK) »
Also curious, acha gil?

Skoosh.