Mystery can't find relative after marriage possibly Chinese spouse

[bitzar]

hirondelle

If I'm looking at the correct families on the 1881 and 1891, the 1891 lists a daughter to Michael and Elizabeth REDMOND named Elizabeth, aged 1.  I know its possible to have a daughter named Eliza and another named Elizabeth.... BUT, is it possible that Eliza CHING died shortly after marriage and her parents named another child Elizabeth?!

I cant see her death though!

bitzar.

[Raybistre]

Hi,
Found a christening at All Saints, Liverpool for a William James Shuin on 12 Sep 1900 son of James Shuin and Elizabeth. This was on Family search. Can't find a birth in GRO index or FreeBMD so could be mis-transcribed.
Ray

[bitzar]

The OH thinks its a bit odd that a son would refer to his father as 'Ah' as in Ah Jim!  Also note that Ah Jim doesn't have a surname.

Ah is a term that is normally used to call people by their first name like Ah John or Ah Nigel.  It wouldn't normally be used in conjunction with a surname as in Ah Jones or Ah Richardson. 

It's most likely a Cantonese term, so Hong Kong or Southern China (Guangdong / Canton).

Then again, I could be totes wrong!

bitzar.

[lancsann]

I think that word is parish, it looks like the same as the parish written at the top of the page.

Yes it is, no wonder it didn't say Synagogue which confused me 

Annie

I think it actually says in the Jewish Church within the parish of St Simon. It does not look quite the same as Parish of at the top of the page

[nanny jan]

The certificate has been signed by a curate and reads 'according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church' so it is a parish church (Church of England).

Jewish ceremonies take place in a synagogue.

[lancsann]

I wondered if as in a marriage in RC church a registar had to be there. A bit fanciful I know that that could have been the curate. However having looked at the next pages in the register I agree that it is is probably parish.

[Hirondelle]

Marriage: 29 Dec 1866 St George, Derby Square, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
 John Kelly - Full, Warehouseman, Batchelor, 15 William St, Dale St
 Elizabeth Ching - Full, Spinster, Olive Mount, Wavertree
     Groom's Father: John Kelly, Farmer
     Bride's Father: Thomas Ching, Mason
     Witness: John Parker; Elizabeth Ollis
     Married by Banns by: J S Thomas
     Register: Marriages 1837 - 1868, Page 239, Entry 477
     Source: LDS Film 1656195
see if Elizabeth Ching is in Liverpool in 1851 and 1861 census - may show other family members ?

ADDED
Mary Ching b 1836 Liverpool
Sarah Ching b 1840 Liverpool

Jessie Edith Ching baptised 27th sept 1881 St Peter ,Liverpool
father James Dark Ching
mother Mary Jane .............
same couple have John L Ching 1877 b Liverpool
.......................................................................................
William G Ching b 1978 b Liverpool
Emily C Ching b 1880 b Liverpool
have a look on www.familysearch.org    .. - a lot of records for Ching in Liverpool
good luck
 

Thank you

The couple were married in 1889 so unfortunately these records aren't a match. I think that because one of their witnesses is called Peter Chungting it does seem like a Chinese link rather than the British surname Ching which is geographically associated with Devon.

[Hirondelle]

Hi,
Found a christening at All Saints, Liverpool for a William James Shuin on 12 Sep 1900 son of James Shuin and Elizabeth. This was on Family search. Can't find a birth in GRO index or FreeBMD so could be mis-transcribed.
Ray

Thank you! I did find this on the census after you suggested it but it looks like it's a Scottish surname that was misheard as there is a William James Shewein on the 1901 census with the correct age and parents named Eliza and James. But good spot though, thank you!

[Hirondelle]

Something else has struck me too, that it appears Eliza lied about her age on the marriage bann, I have her date of birth on her baptism as 1871 yet on the marriage bann her year of birth would be 1869.

I wonder if she didn't have parental permission and perhaps lied?

I did worry that perhaps all of my research has been wrong that I have the wrong Michael Redmond as her father, but consistently through the census there is a Michael Redmond married to Elizabeth Redmond with carter or cart owner as his occupation.