Author Topic: A niece and an orphan in South Normanton in 1881  (Read 1684 times)

Offline Newfloridian

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A niece and an orphan in South Normanton in 1881
« on: Monday 07 August 17 09:13 BST (UK) »
More curiosity from the Moakes / Gaskin stable. I came across this entry in the census for 1881 (RG11/3314 23 14)

Samuel Gascoigne (36); Ellen (mother widow) (66); Hermon (34); Sarah (32); George (27); James (24). and then:

Thirza niece aged 9 years
Cinderella Moakes Orphan aged 4 years.

Enoch Gaskin (who died in 1872) married Ellen Moakes in 1836. All their children named on this census were still unmarried. The question is: who were the mothers of Thirza (entered as Gaskin in the Birth Indexes for JFM 1873) and Cinderella Moakes (AMJ 1877). No mothers' maiden names therefore I assume both illegitimate.

Interesting too, Enoch and Ellen had had a daughter they named Cinderella in 1839 who died in 1863. She had been married to Henry Moakes - the son of George Moakes and Hannah Beardsmore

Round and round we go ... !!

Alan
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
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"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)

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Online heywood

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Re: A niece and an orphan in South Normanton in 1881
« Reply #1 on: Monday 07 August 17 09:29 BST (UK) »
Hello,

1891 2651/11/15
1901 3136/27/45

Thirza is daughter to Sarah Renshaw

Heywood

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline brentor boy

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Re: A niece and an orphan in South Normanton in 1881
« Reply #2 on: Monday 07 August 17 10:07 BST (UK) »
In 1891 Sinderella Moaks (sic) niece, living with Joseph and Sarah Kenshaw and Thirza  Gascoigne, daughter.

Offline Newfloridian

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Re: A niece and an orphan in South Normanton in 1881
« Reply #3 on: Monday 07 August 17 10:28 BST (UK) »
I think that 1901 census tells only part of the truth!

This is the same Thirza I asked about in the initial post but the make up of this household is also fascinating - and adds yet more questions:

Henry Ball Head (30)
Thirza Ball Wife (28)
Joseph Gascoyne Son (4)
Eliza Ball Dau (2)
Wilfred Ball Son (3 mo)
Sarah Renshaw M-in-law Widow (52)
Cinderella Moakes Boarder (24)

Henry and Thirza were married in Mansfield in 1897
Joseph Gascoigne was born illegitimate in AMJ 1897 7b Mansfield
I accept that Thirza's mother's name was Sarah but Renshaw was her married name and Thirza was illegitimate. The registered would have had her as Thirza Renshaw as would the 1881 census. She is also listed in 1881 as niece - so is there an incidence of a Sarah Gaskin /Gascoigne marrying a Mr Renshaw who then died before 1901?

And - add another twist to this saga, bearing in mind that all the occupants of the 1901 census were born in South Normanton, Henry Ball's mother's maiden name is given as Bacon. As far as I can see from the marriage lists there were three Ball / Bacon marriages in 1851 and 1852 - and I have several links between the Ball , Gaskin and Renshaw families with the Bacons.

Alan
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)

Online heywood

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Re: A niece and an orphan in South Normanton in 1881
« Reply #4 on: Monday 07 August 17 10:43 BST (UK) »
I don't quite understand what you mean but as I understand it,  Sarah Gascoigne declares herself Mrs Renshaw - she is Joseph's wife in 1891, a widow in 1901 and is in 1911 indexes as Sarah Renshaw.
I cannot see a marriage for the couple however but they were together at least in 1891.
If I recall there are two Joseph Renshaw born within a year of each other and they died at a similar time too.
Thirza marries and becomes Mrs Ball. As she is presumably the daughter of Sarah G, this makes Sarah Renshaw (assumed name perhaps) mother in law.
Cinderella seems to have changed her name to Renshaw too according to 1911 indexes.

The birth certificates of the two girls would show their mothers' names.

Heywood
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online heywood

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Re: A niece and an orphan in South Normanton in 1881
« Reply #5 on: Monday 07 August 17 11:12 BST (UK) »
In 1881, Thirza is shown as niece to Samuel Gascoigne.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Newfloridian

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Re: A niece and an orphan in South Normanton in 1881
« Reply #6 on: Monday 07 August 17 11:43 BST (UK) »
Just leaves me to find the lineage of Henry Ball. Looking at the 1881 census, the most likely candidate appears to be the son of (unmarried) Eliza Ball. If that is the case, Eliza was  the daughter of William Ball and Maria Gaskin who married in 1845

Alan
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)

Online heywood

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Re: A niece and an orphan in South Normanton in 1881
« Reply #7 on: Monday 07 August 17 11:56 BST (UK) »
Are you now happy re Thirza?

Re Cinderella, there is a death for Hannah Moakes aged 21 in 1881, I think it was - any relation?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Newfloridian

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Re: A niece and an orphan in South Normanton in 1881
« Reply #8 on: Monday 07 August 17 12:01 BST (UK) »
I am, many thanks

My main interest is the search for marriages between cousins. Rather hangstrung by the lack of ease of access to PRs but I'm sure they are as common in this area as they are in my other area of interest in the Welland Valley!

Alan
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)