Elizabeth Wilson (nee Spence)

[Forfarian]

I have attached what proof I have, Keith was in Banffshire until 1975 then became part of Morayshire.

No, that isn't 'proof'. It isn't even an original document. It is an extract from an index compiled by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. To find 'proof' you need to find some other evidence to link your Elizabeth Spence with this one.

Many people's records are missing from the surviving records. Just because you have found one who might fit, apart from the fact that she was born in the parish of Keith in the county of Banff (aka Banffshire), does not mean that she is the right one, especially as you have evidence from an original document (you have checked the original, haven't you?) that your Elizabeth was born in the parish of Banff in the county of Banff (aka Banffshire).

The towns/burghs and parishes of Banff and Keith are both in the historic county of Banff aka Banffshire. For purposes of local government, Keith has been in Moray (NB not 'Morayshire') since 1975. Banff was in 'Banff and Buchan' from 1975 until 1995, and it is now in 'Aberdeenshire', the boundaries of which (unfortunately, because it creates confusion) do not match the boundaries of the historic county of Aberdeen aka Aberdeenshire.

For purposes of family history research, the post-1975 local authority areas are unhelpful, except as a possible guide to where archives may be held. My advice would be to ignore the post-1975 local government units and stick to the historic counties, because all historical material was collected on the basis of the historical counties and parishes.

PS just in case anyone is tempted to dissent, I actually live in Moray (in the bit of Moray that is part of Morayshire) and was at one time employed by Moray Council.

[Forfarian]

Aha! I see that you have Elizabeth's death certificate and it says that her father was William Spence, shipmaster, and her mother was Isabella Hendry.

I think you need to forget altogether about the Elizabeth Spence born in Keith (there are not a lot of shipmasters in Keith, which is well inland and has no stretches of water much bigger than a millpond!) and accept that the records of your Elizabeth's birth and baptism have not survived.

[themonkeymonkey]

Thank you Forfarian, I apologize for my ignorance, in future I will double check my information and look for real proof before posting, sorry.

[Forfarian]

Thank you Forfarian, I apologize for my ignorance, in future I will double check my information and look for real proof before posting, sorry.

No need to apologise, it's a classic one that almost everyone does when starting out, including me - 30-odd years ago I put quite a bit of effort into climbing a wrong tree until I found a death certificate that told me that my great-great-great-grandmother wasn't the one whose baptism was in the right parish in the right year, but another person altogether, same name, same parish, same year, of whose birth and baptism there is no record.

[themonkeymonkey]

It has been very very confusing for me and without the people on this board that have helped me enormously I would have been looking for months (years) to come.  I would like to say thank you to all of you for your help its very much appreciated.

[Forfarian]

I'm sure I speak for everyone if I say you are welcome.

[Fordyce]

Fordyce you are a miracle worker it is definitely him, widower of Eliz. Spence, he died of a fractured skull.  I don't know how you did it but thanks.

Just happy to help.

Re William Spence, some years ago when trying to identify George Hutton, shipmaster, who had a child named Isabella Hutton by my gtgdmother Janet Cruickshank in 1828 in Banff (but no record of her birth - sound familiar?), I asked the help of shipping expert Ian G Whittaker, who still has a website www.offscotland.plus.com/book/book.html with contact details. He gave me a list of ships mastered by a Hutton - he couldn't give more detail than that and I couldn't work out if any were George. I gave up. You might have better luck.

When looking for Isabella Hendry, bear in mind she might be recorded as Henry. There seems to be a fair cluster of Hen(d)rys in Alvah and Banff. One William Hen(d)ry, farmer Muiryhill Alvah, records himself as belonging to the Congregational church, so his and his family's details are not in the OPR - it was mighty difficult to fathom how come my Janet Cruickshank (yes  - 'er again) had Hendry gdchildren.

Just to (over)complicate matters, sometimes the names Elizabeth and Isabella are interchangeable. I suggest you're looking for an illegitimate child where the mother is local (in/near Banff) and the father isn't. The Kirk Session might have something to say; it was silent on my Isabella Hutton.

However one last thing popped up. When away from home, with one in every port, little bundles can get left behind, as I reckon with my Isabella Hutton. Is he the culprit:-

1841: Church St, Port Glasgow, Renfrewshire (FreeCEN)
William Spence    50 Scotland Ship Master
William Spence    25 Renfrewshire Cl
Robert Spence    20
Eliz Campbell    25

IGI:
Name:    William Spence
Marriage Date:    29 Oct 1814
Marriage Place:    Port Glasgow,Renfrew,Scotland
Spouse:    Janet Park

Name    William Spence
Christening Place    , PORT GLASGOW, RENFREW, SCOTLAND
Birth Date    15 Sep 1815
Birthplace    , Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland
Father's Name    William Spence
Mother's Name    Janet Park

Name    John Spence
Christening Date    30 Oct 1818
Christening Place    , PORT GLASGOW, RENFREW, SCOTLAND
Birth Date    14 Oct 1818
Father's Name    William Spence
Mother's Name    Janet Park

Name    Robert Spence
Christening Place    , PORT GLASGOW, RENFREW, SCOTLAND
Birth Date    06 May 1821
Birthplace    , Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland
Father's Name    William Spence
Mother's Name    Janet Park

Name    James Spence
Christening Place    , PORT GLASGOW, RENFREW, SCOTLAND
Birth Date    24 May 1825
Birthplace    , Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland
Father's Name    William Spence
Mother's Name    Janet Park

Over to you now! Have fun.

[themonkeymonkey]

Thank you .   They make it look so easy in adverts...find your ancestors ....but its a lot of work, but I am enjoying it.  Thanks for your help .

[Forfarian]

Thank you .   They make it look so easy in adverts...find your ancestors ....but its a lot of work, but I am enjoying it.  Thanks for your help .

Aye, and they claim in the adverts to have everything you need to research, but they don't.