Author Topic: Aprilovic Family  (Read 947 times)

Offline Robynkc

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Re: Aprilovic Family
« Reply #18 on: Friday 15 December 17 13:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matthew i've hunted everywhere for  Marco's parents. Been on several Facebook groups including a Serbian group, but no good. Makes me think some sort of conspiracy in the town, were the parents disposed of??  Think Marco passed some info to his son Peter Aprilovic in NSW before he died.
Robyn.

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Offline Matthew Watson

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Re: Aprilovic Family
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 16 December 17 02:23 GMT (UK) »
I did have a similar thought to you however I thought about it some more and I think I have a very logical answer. 

Firstly, isn't it strange that there is no record of any Aprilovic in Croatia/Serbia, how could this be?  I think the most logical answer is that Marko was an orphan/illegitimate child, so the St Stephens monastery where I'm guessing he was raised had to make up the details for their church books (record system). 

Marko was born in April and all Croatian/Serbian surnames usually end with 'ic' so this could explain the beginning of a new surname in historical records - APRILovic.  It also ties in with his father being given the most common name Ivan which is the same as John in english.  Finally his mother has no name and her maiden name also happens to be one of the most recognisable surnames during the 1800's in Croatia, Jelacic.  Either it was chosen because it was a rcognisable name of that time, or it could also be the single piece of information that is true if he was had out of wedlock and his mother was forced to give him up or disguise the name of his father.   

There's a really good website that explains a little more about orphans/illegitimate children and how they were recorded during this time here - http://www.croatia-in-english.com/gen/social.html#illeg

 



 

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Offline JohninSussex

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Re: Aprilovic Family
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 16 December 17 09:15 GMT (UK) »
There are some interesting features of this puzzle, but I expect the answer will be that it's impossible to reach any definite conclusions.

I guess it's possible that at some stage the surname "Aprilović" was simply invented.  I also noticed that it isn't a name that seems to exist back home, for example a google search for that name only returns a few people in America or Australia.  But another explanation for this is that, as is very common, the name was mis-spelled as the family left the Balkan region and if we could deduce the correct native spelling some progress might be made.

As for the mother, who is named as "Baroness Jelačić", that would be (and still is today) a usual way of naming a noblewoman.  The community would know who was meant by that name and it might even seem disrespectful to refer to her as Jelena or Anna or whatever her name was.  There is a lot online about that family, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jelačić family though without a first name or other information it's impossible to pinpoint a specific individual as being the woman in question.

Whether the alleged baptismal certificate dated 26 years after the event is telling the truth (or whether it is even genuine, looks a bit fishy to me), could also benefit from research. 


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Offline rosball

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Re: Aprilovic Family
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 16 December 17 09:31 GMT (UK) »
Just adding that I could photograph his divorce papers https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/item/1160602 and https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/item/1152336 and probate packet https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/item/1340325 next time I am at the archives if these were of interest.  Yes they are unlikely to help with his origins but may have a marriage cert and a death cert.


Just let me know if you want me to photograph any of these - it will probably be after New Year now.

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Offline Robynkc

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Re: Aprilovic Family
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 16 December 17 23:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ros,   yes that would be fantastic if you could do that.
Cheers Robyn

Offline Robynkc

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Re: Aprilovic Family
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 17 December 17 06:42 GMT (UK) »
Matthew Watson I have sent you a message to ur inbox

Offline Joney

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Re: Aprilovic Family
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 17 December 17 12:16 GMT (UK) »
I have been fascinated by this thread. The idea of a link to Eastern European nobility would have anyone asking questions, I suspect. Are you aware that the only reason that you are ever asked to prove you are a baptised Catholic is when you are about to marry in a Catholic church ? It was never normal for any Catholic church to produce a baptism certificate at the time a child was baptised, if it was still the ninteenth century.  If you continued to live in the same area as an adult, when you wanted to marry, the priest could just look up your baptism in the church register. If you had moved away, the priest would write to the parish where you said you were baptised to check. This is why Catholic baptisms sometimes have the marriage noted in the margin.

It seems to me that the 1907 paperwork has probably all been produced in just this situation. It explains the reason that it is so many years after the event. It also suggests that Marko was planning to marry in an English-speaking country in 1907-8, so had to get the paperwork translated.  The same documents could have been used years later for the marriage to a different woman, ie Norah Doyle.

Edited to add 15 mins later:
It would be interesting to find out when civil registration of births began in Croatia. When no civil birth registration existed, it was nomal, for example in Ireland, to accept a baptism certificate as a substitute. Could the 1907 documents relate to a naturalization for example ? What was the date of the New Zealand naturalisation referred to earlier ? Just some suggestions. I would still agree with jorose that a new translation of the Serbian document is needed.
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Offline Matthew Watson

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Re: Aprilovic Family
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 20 December 17 01:04 GMT (UK) »
When I google translated the document the only interesting difference was the reference to a church rather than monastery of St Stephen. 

I've been trying to locate this place in Solin Croatia by searching for monasteries/churches however I was only able to find one that burnt down in 1875 and never rebuilt.   

If anyone can decipher the signature on the baptism document it would be greatly appreciated.