Author Topic: Possible date of this photo found hanging in the Bakers Arms pub  (Read 465 times)

Offline ValJJJ

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
Possible date of this photo found hanging in the Bakers Arms pub
« on: Friday 11 August 17 09:25 BST (UK) »
Hi all

I wonder if you can help please to date this photo from the clothing and poses?

A relative found this photo behind another picture hanging in the Bakers Arms pub in Harkstead, Suffolk, England.

We guess that it is a family group connected with the Kirk family in Chesterfield, since the publican's first husband, who died when 24 of TB, was Samuel Kirk, who was admitted to Greenwich Union Infirmary in April 1914 and died there on 1st May 1914.

At marriage in Chesterfield, on 26 Dec 1911, the father is shown as Richard Kirk deceased; occupation: Fettler, and Samuel Kirk, 22, a hairdresser, therefore born abt 1890.

Samuel’s parents – Richard and Annie Kirk nee Salt. Married 1886 in Brampton, Chesterfield.
Father's Names:   Alfred Kirk and James Salt
 
Suppose the photo could be of or include the Salt family but no idea really.

The uniform of the young man could help date the picture?  Does the uniform indicate anything to anyone eg which regiment/role?  I have found a census record in Jesmond St Andrew, Northumberland for Arthur Kirk in 1911, age 18, so born abt 1893, born in Derbyshire, single, a soldier in 3rd Battalian Northumberland Fusiliers.  I wonder if this is him as one of Samuel's siblings was an Arthur and is of about the right age.

I've also attached another photo, which was found behind another picture in the pub, which we can identify as Rose Kirk and from her clothing would say it is a mourning photo and probably from around 1915?  Rose remarried in 1920 and she and her husband ran the Bakers Arms from sometime during WW2.

Hope you can help.

Thanks in anticipation.

Val
Crook, Campbell, Bannister

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline ValJJJ

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
Re: Possible date of this photo please
« Reply #1 on: Friday 11 August 17 09:56 BST (UK) »
Here is the second photo - too large before.
Crook, Campbell, Bannister

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,090
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
    • cliffordclan
Re: Possible date of this photo found hanging in the Bakers Arms pub
« Reply #2 on: Friday 11 August 17 14:11 BST (UK) »
The uniform can't identify a Regt. I'm afraid. The only information is that it's a post 1915 economy tunic.
The general clothes style is WW1.
With regard to the 2nd. photo there's no indication that she's in mourning. Her dress could be any darkish colour.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Online Handypandy

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,069
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Possible date of this photo found hanging in the Bakers Arms pub
« Reply #3 on: Friday 11 August 17 14:34 BST (UK) »
Clean up....

Online Handypandy

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,069
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Possible date of this photo found hanging in the Bakers Arms pub
« Reply #4 on: Friday 11 August 17 14:59 BST (UK) »
And another....

Offline ValJJJ

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
Re: Possible date of this photo found hanging in the Bakers Arms pub
« Reply #5 on: Friday 11 August 17 21:35 BST (UK) »
Thanks jim1 for the info on the uniform, general age of clothing, and the comment about not necessarily a mourning photo.   We thought that as both had been covered up by more recent pictures, that they were no longer relevant to Rose, being older and remarrying, so assumed they dated from around the time she was connected with her first husband and family, or possibly soon after her husband's death.  We'll never know I suppose.

Thanks to others who have cleaned up the photos but really that wasn't my aim of posting here, so don't want people to spend their precious time on this.  I am actually able to clean them up myself but just haven't got round to it as have a lot of these old pics to work on. 

Thanks very much again, and any other insights into clothing/poses appreciated, but I think Jim1 has nailed it.

Crook, Campbell, Bannister

Online Treetotal

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,344
  • Cissie Layton
    • View Profile
Re: Possible date of this photo found hanging in the Bakers Arms pub
« Reply #6 on: Friday 11 August 17 21:47 BST (UK) »
Rose is wearing a wedding ring and looks happy so maybe this photo signifies a special occasion. Is there anything on the back of the photo.
Carol
CAPES Hull. KIRK  Leeds, Hull. JONES  Wales,  Lancashire. CARROLL Ireland, Lancashire, U.S.A. BROUGHTON Leicester, Goole, Hull BORRILL  Lincolnshire, Durham, Hull. GROOM  Wishbech, Hull. ANTHONY St. John's Nfld. BUCKNALL Lincolnshire, Hull. BUTT Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. PARSONS  Western Bay, Newfoundland. MONAGHAN  Ireland, U.S.A. PERRY Cheshire, Liverpool.
 
RESTORERS:PLEASE DO NOT USE MY RESTORES WITHOUT PRIOR PERMISSION - THANK YOU

Offline ValJJJ

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
Re: Possible date of this photo found hanging in the Bakers Arms pub
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 12 August 17 09:01 BST (UK) »
Hi Treetotal

Good question!  I don't think there is anything on the back - these are photos of the original photos which are in the possession of a cousin.  I'll ask him but I know other pics he's sent were mounted on card and he daren't attempt to remove the backing.  Possibly the same situation here, and I'm pretty sure he would have told me what was on the back if anything was visible.

Do you know the significance of wearing a ring on her right hand index finger?

Cheers
Val
Crook, Campbell, Bannister

Online Handypandy

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,069
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Possible date of this photo found hanging in the Bakers Arms pub
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 12 August 17 09:53 BST (UK) »
Its on the middle finger, not the index. I doubt that there is any significance but it could be that the ring was a bequest and fitted this finger.