Author Topic: James Brown and two women in Edinburgh - could it get any more difficult?!  (Read 2764 times)

Offline tillimay

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I am new here, as I think everyone is, and quite new to the genealogy thing, although it certainly has taken over my life!

I have a mystery which I just can't solve so I'm hoping that more experienced minds might be able to help - please.

James Brown worked as a slater and was born in Edinburgh in 1859 or 1861, I have no idea who his parents were.

James was apparently married to Isabella Cumming but the only marriage in Scotland with these two names took place in 1888 but the parents for Isabella do not tie up with the names given on her death certificate, which gives her m.s. as Anderson.  She died in 1945 in Edinburgh - this is the only certain fact.

Two daughters were born - Elizabeth in Airdrie (I think) in 1891 and Annie in Edinburgh in 1897, however, both seemed to be born illegitimate to Jeanie Montgomery, with no father being named on the birth certificates, however, Annie was given Brown as her middle name.

On Elizabeth's marriage certificate in 1907 her parents' names were given as Jeanie Brown m.s. Montgomery and James Brown, occupation slater.

Elizabeth's second daughter Jane b. 1909, was given Montgomery as a middle name.

On Annie's marriage certificate in 1915 her parents' names were given as Isabella Brown m.s. Cummings and James Brown, slater.

On Elizabeth's death certificate in 1969 her mother's name was given as Isabella Brown m.s. Cumming (deceased), father James Brown, slater (deceased).

On Annie's death certificate in 1978 her mother's name was given as Jeanie Montgomery (deceased) and the father's name is blank.

I have all the certificates for Annie and Elizabeth but haven't been able to identify a birth or death for James (apparently born in Edinburgh), or Isabella (apparently born in Coatbridge to Hugh and Isabella Cumming) or Jeanie Montgomery, who I think was born in Ireland - from the 1891 Census where she appears in Airdrie with James Brown, slater, age recorded as 32 on ScotlandsPeople but obliterated by the numerator. 

I also think I've found them on the 1901 Census living in Edinburgh, where there is another daughter Jane, aged 6 months.  I found a death for Jane in 1903 aged 2 - father James Brown (slater), mother Jane Brown m.s. Montgomery.

I am so confused, may be I'm missing something really obvious!  I'm wondering if anyone can suggest what might have been going on.  Any help, suggestions or just sympathy would be very welcome!  Many Thanks.

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Offline iluleah

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Re: James Brown and two women in Edinburgh - could it get any more difficult?!
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 12 August 17 01:40 BST (UK) »
Hi and welcome to rootschat ;D

James Brown.....a very common name even if you only look in Edinburgh baptisms, so could it be two different James Browns who both happened to be slaters?

The good thing is Scottish records have more details!
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

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Offline Kay99

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Re: James Brown and two women in Edinburgh - could it get any more difficult?!
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 12 August 17 06:31 BST (UK) »
Welcome to RootsChat from me as well  ;D

Looking at the families you list in 1891 and 1901 there was a mother in law Elizabeth White b 1829 Glasgow and sister in law born 1865 England living with the family at the time in 1891. So this family does tie in well with an 1888 marriage  between James Brown and Isabella White in Newington.   Edit however relooking at your post James and Jeannie are in Airdire in 1891  :-\

When there is confusion/uncertainly in a tree it is usually best to go back to facts that you are certain of and can prove,  then work back from there.   Brown is sadly  a difficult surname to trace   ;D 

Kay

Edit -I think the 1888 marriage you refer to is on 25 July 1888 Edinburgh between James Brown 27 Batchelor - Slater and Isabella Cummings 27 Spinster  His parents were Andrew  Brown (gardener) and Mary and her parents were Mckenzie Cummings (Iron Moulder) and Isabella ms Wilson.   Fits in with Elizabeth's death cert but doesn't really appear to tie in with the family in 1891 unless Isabella was away from home  :-\

Online MonicaL

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Re: James Brown and two women in Edinburgh - could it get any more difficult?!
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 12 August 17 16:24 BST (UK) »
Hi Tillimay

Welcome from me too  :)

I think it likely that the 1888 marriage is the correct one. There was another daughter born in 1889, a Rose Horn Brown. There is a family tree for Rose which includes her birth cert. The marriage matches what Kay mentions.

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Online MonicaL

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Re: James Brown and two women in Edinburgh - could it get any more difficult?!
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 12 August 17 16:33 BST (UK) »
Possible entry for Rose and Isabella in 1891:

Donald Cumming 60 blacksmith b.Dornoch, Sutherland
Euphemia Cumming 30 daughter b. Dornoch, Sutherland
Bella Brown/Cumming 27 daughter Formerly Gen Serv Dom b. Dornoch, Sutherland - possible entry here https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ4S-HZ4
Rose Brown 1 granddaughter b. Edinburgh

Address: Whiteface Post Office, Bonar, Creich Sutherland

Rose looks to have remained in Sutherland as she shows there still in 1901:

Donald Cumming 70 blacksmith b.Dornoch, Sutherland
Euphemia Cumming 34 daughter b. Dornoch, Sutherland
Rose Brown 11 granddaughter b. Edinburgh

Address: Whiteface, Bonar, Creich Sutherland

Monica
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Online MonicaL

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Re: James Brown and two women in Edinburgh - could it get any more difficult?!
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 12 August 17 16:39 BST (UK) »
When Rose married an Archibald Brown in 1913, these are the details she gave for her parents:

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Online MonicaL

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Re: James Brown and two women in Edinburgh - could it get any more difficult?!
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 12 August 17 17:32 BST (UK) »
For James Brown (also the others really!), I think the names he has given need further work... ::)

From his marriage in 1888, he shows father as Andrew, gardener as mentioned by Kay. His mother is given as Mary Bennet, previously Brown, maiden name Brown.

Assuming an Andrew Brown was his father, I think Andrew and Mary may not have been married. There is this possile birth for James in Edinburgh: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ5W-3XK A numer of other births in Edinburgh at the time showing where parents shows just as Mary Brown (may be more than one Mary Brown though).

There is this marriage in Edinbburgh in 1866 which brings some of the info together: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2HR-HBDY This is from the Parish Register. The statutory register will give you more info including mothers' names and witnesses etc.

A little unravelling ahead here for sure  ;)

Monica

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Online MonicaL

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Re: James Brown and two women in Edinburgh - could it get any more difficult?!
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 12 August 17 18:29 BST (UK) »

James was apparently married to Isabella Cumming but the only marriage in Scotland with these two names took place in 1888 but the parents for Isabella do not tie up with the names given on her death certificate, which gives her m.s. as Anderson.  She died in 1945 in Edinburgh - this is the only certain fact.


Why do you think this is the correct death entry for Isabella Cummings?tt

You have two birth entries, for Elizabeth and Annie Montgommery. Both girls have James Brown, slater, as their father on their marriage and death certs but you have their births showing mother as Jean Montgomery? Have you found Elizabeth and Annie in the 1901 and 1911 censuses?

Have you found a death for James Brown (hard I know with a name like that)? Have you found a death for Jean Montgomery?

Monica
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Offline Kay99

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Re: James Brown and two women in Edinburgh - could it get any more difficult?!
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 12 August 17 18:41 BST (UK) »
You are motoring Monica  ;D

I think this  Elizabeth and Annie in 1901 that Tillimay found living at the Cowgate Edinburgh (where I got married!)  The family is very similar to the James Brown/Isabella White family in 1891 who also married in 1888 which I found so confusing

James Brown 40 Slater b Edinburgh, Midlothian
Isabella Brown    31 b Coatbridge, Lanarkshire
Elizabeth Brown    10 Edin
Annie Brown 4 Edin
Jane Brown 6 Months