Author Topic: Marriage Lookup or Best Guess please  (Read 233 times)

Offline PippaR

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Marriage Lookup or Best Guess please
« on: Saturday 12 August 17 06:51 BST (UK) »
Finding what happened with this guy, JOHN HARTLEY SMITH, has been an annoying dead end for far too long and I simply don't know how best too resolve it.
I have his birth certificate: born 9 May 1876, Moorside Lane, Droylsden.
Mother: Eliza, formerly Hartley.  Father:  Richard.
1881 census:  1 Pearson Street, Stalybridge.
1891 census:  13 Kinder Street, Stalybridge.
1901 census:  1 Halls Yard, Dukinfield.  He did not marry Mary Jane, listed as spouse and they separated.

Can anyone suggest how best I can track a marriage and death?
It would be so, so helpful, if death certs could be sourced/purchased based on birth dates given common names such as this.

Any suggestions please would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, PippaR

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Online heywood

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Re: Marriage Lookup or Best Guess please
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 12 August 17 07:20 BST (UK) »
Hi PippaR,

You say he didn't marry Mary Jane so are you looking for a different marriage?

There is an old thread here of yours which has JHS/John Bridge. Have you changed your mind?

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=451232.0


Regards
Heywood
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Offline PippaR

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Re: Marriage Lookup or Best Guess please
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 12 August 17 07:34 BST (UK) »
You're quite right in that it's the same person. 

Family lore has it that he died, hit by a bus (not sure they were around then), left her before married and went back to his wife, and so it goes on. 
I've not located any marriages at all for him prior to 1901. 
Regardless, he is my great grandfather and I'd like to know what became of him.

His mother died in 1883, (it appears abandoned by her husband) and James Bridge seems to have become his surrogate father.  So it makes (some) sense that the birth cert of his child born in 1901 had the name of the father as John Bridge.  Can't prove otherwise.

Hope this thread makes some sense.
PippaR

Online heywood

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Re: Marriage Lookup or Best Guess please
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 12 August 17 07:37 BST (UK) »
Is this the scenario?

You have him in the three censuses so that is ok.
He didn't marry Mary Jane - are you wondering if he married elsewhere?

What about the 1904 death - do you have that certificate?

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Offline PippaR

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Re: Marriage Lookup or Best Guess please
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 12 August 17 07:56 BST (UK) »
Yes i have that certificate.  Died in a Workhouse from a heart condition, age 27, with only staff present at death and no other details to follow.  I haven't been able to find any family trees etc. who had a connection to him and couldn't tie him to the James Bridge who John Hartley lived with.  Somehow it doesn't seem likely and I can't really explain that assumption other than the 1901 census has Mary Jane living with the most likely father, John Hartley.

Do you think I'm clutching a little to hard at this straw?

PippaR

Online heywood

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Re: Marriage Lookup or Best Guess please
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 12 August 17 08:29 BST (UK) »
I do understand what you mean and it must be very frustrating.
I have had a look at other possible John Bridges in 1901 but they are alive in 1911 so cannot be the man who died in 1904.

Perhaps the bus story was embellished or mistaken. Does the death certificate not have an occupation either?
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Offline PippaR

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Re: Marriage Lookup or Best Guess please
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 12 August 17 23:34 BST (UK) »
Died 8 January 1904, Union Workhouse Ashton Under Lyne.  General Labourer of Stalybridge.  Certified E A Shore, Matron. 
Age and location fit but he wasn't with her during her pregnancy in 1901 and I cannot see another man (John Hartley age 24) taking on that responsibility.  Maybe that's just too darn logical.

So I'm back to best guess and I do appreciate the thought process of others.  Only those who are into family research would understand this need to know.

cheers,
PippaR

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Re: Marriage Lookup or Best Guess please
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 13 August 17 00:11 BST (UK) »
It does look as though they are the same person.
Is Annie's father named as John Bridge?
Have you ever found a baptism for her?
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Marriage Lookup or Best Guess please
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 13 August 17 00:14 BST (UK) »
Hi
I have nothing very helpful to contribute to your quest, but just a couple of thoughts.

If John Harltey SMITH's mother, Eliza, died young, one wonders what was the cause of her death as sometimes heart conditions do run in families and this, as you have stated wasthe cause of John's death.

Sue
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