Almost 10 years on and STILL can't identify John Williams - any ideas?

[jonw65]

It could be the Charles Perks is related to John Williams.

Charles (Chas) Perks was a regular witness at St Martins. There will almost certainly be no connection to John Williams.

[louisa maud]

St Martins Lane  1841
 William 35
 Harriett 35
 also
Charles Perks 30
Eliza 35, he being a stationer

LM

[jonw65]

Louisa, in an earlier period a Charles Perks was the parish clerk of St Martins. It could be that this younger one was a relation. A family connection to the church could explain him witnessing a good number of marriages there.
He witnessed one on the 31st August 1863
Then about nine in September
Chas Perks kicks off October by witnessing the Williams-Fuller marriage, and his name is on another five that month.
John

[louisa maud]

Well that answers that then Jon, we are way of the track of the original request, so I am now  bowing out, been an interesting topic, if the originator is tracing the Perks family between us they now have a lot of info

Happy Hunting

Louisa Maud

[Jill Eaton]

Can I say I big thank you to everyone who has contributed. I appreciate the time and effort you've all put in 

So now I know that Charles Perks appears to be "professional witness" rather than family or even a close friend.

I can't check the other witness name on the marriage certificate as I'm at work at it's on my home computer but assuming it isn't Martha Fuller it perhaps point to both John and Hannah having no close friends or family living close by. Hannah's may have been in Prittlewell. Johns?....could have been anywhere...

I still don't know why there was a C of E marriage followed by catholic baptisms.

Were the godparents chosen simply because they were catholic or because they had a family/friends connection.?

Did the family move from Notting Dale to the Hanover Square area because they had friends or godparents living there? The catholic registers for St Mary's Horseferry Road and census returns for Hannah's area show a large quantity of Irish surnames. But none of this is proof that John was Irish - only that Hannah and the twins moved to an area which seems to have had a large catholic population and was poor.

There is no indication on the baptism record that John was dead (I'm not sure whether there would be?)

I will have to check Marys birth certificate to check who was the informant.

I have a gut instinct that John was from Ireland, probably came over after the 1861 census. However, it's proof I need

[coombs]

Tracing Mr Perks you never know if there is a connection to John Williams. Always good to trace witnesses of ancestors, sometimes they may have just been a family friend though.

Small world as I have ancestors from Prittlewell.

[Jill Eaton]

Tracing Mr Perks you never know if there is a connection to John Williams. Always good to trace witnesses of ancestors, sometimes they may have just been a family friend though.

Indeed it is and the considerable amount of work that was put into tracking down Mr Perks has been of enormous help to me. He is an interesting character in his own right 

[Jill Eaton]

I've checked Mary Williams birth certificate and the informant was indeed her mother.

I'm not sure how relevant that is in terms of her father's death as many of the birth certificates I have give the name of the mother rather than the father as the informant. Occupation of father is given as General Labourer.

The first time he is noted as "Deceased", other than his wife describing herself as widow in 1871, is on Mary's marriage certificate in June 1884

[Jill Eaton]

Isn't the second witness to the 1863 marriage M H Zoller (rather than Fuller)?  The same name appears as a witness to a 27 Sep 1863 marriage in the same register.

I've had another look and I believe you are indeed correct and it's Zoller.
So useful to have another pair of eyes to check