Author Topic: Bentley family - looking for explanation on confusing baptism dates  (Read 743 times)

Offline sccond

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Bentley family - looking for explanation on confusing baptism dates
« on: Tuesday 15 August 17 01:21 BST (UK) »
I've been filling in my Bentley tree and have found a few baptisms that dates conflict.  Perhaps someone can shed some light on this and offer a possible explanation?

Here goes:  I found the following Baptisims on lan-opc


Baptism: 24 Nov 1832 Hallfold Chapel, Whitworth, Lancashire, England
John Bentley - [Child] of Richard Bentley & Grace (formerly Briearly)
    Born: 6 Aug 1832
    Abode: Bridge Mill
    Occupation: Engeneer
    Baptised by: Wm Gibson
    Register: Baptisms 1820 - 1837, Page 17
    Source: LDS Film 1482384

Baptism: 1 Dec 1833 St Bartholomew, Whitworth, Lancashire, England
Samuel Bentley - [Child] of Richard Bentley & Grace
    Abode: Bridge Mill
    Occupation: Engineer
    Baptised by: J. Gaitskell
    Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1838 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 155, Entry 1236
    Source: LDS Film 1545948

Baptism: 12 Jan 1834 St Bartholomew, Whitworth, Lancashire, England
John Bates Bentley - [Child] of Richard Bentley & Grace
    Abode: Bridge Mill
    Occupation: Engineer
    Baptised by: J. Gaitskell
    Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1838 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 156, Entry 1241
    Source: LDS Film 1545948

So obviously searching for children of Richard Bentley and Grace (Brierly).  Have other children but these were the confusing ones. First child, John, born Aug 1832, baptized Nov 1832, 7 months after their marriage.  Makes sense.  Next child, Samuel, baptized Dec of 1833; not sure when he was born, but also makes sense.  Next baptism i see if for another John (perhaps first John died?) baptized Jan 1834. So...how/why are two children baptized 6 weeks apart?  I don't see evidence of another Richard an Grace living in Bridge Mill w/occupation Engineer. 

Thanks for any explanations, Lisa
Bentley-Lancs & West Yorkshire, Schofield- Lancs, Cooke & Abbott-Northamptonshire & Canada, Smith & Careless-Staffs, Stewart-Scotland & Canada, Hamill-Ireland, Canada & Maine

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bentley family - looking for explanation on confusing baptism dates
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 15 August 17 02:46 BST (UK) »
Hallford Chapel where John Bentley was baptised in 1832 is Non-Conformist. The other 2 baptisms were at St Bartholomew C. of E. John may have been baptised twice. Perhaps his parents changed churches and thought he had to be "done" again.
Where did "Bates" as middle name come from? Were there ancestors called Bates?
Were there no burials of infant John Bentley between Nov. 1832 and Jan. 1834?

Another possible explanation. Samuel and John Bates Bentley may have been twins. Perhaps Samuel was sickly and baptised quickly. Although if it had been a private baptism there's normally a note to that effect.
Which churches were the other children baptised at?

Baptism of a Grace  Brearley, daughter of Samuel & Sarah, St. Bartholomew, Whitworth 1812. If that was the same Grace who married Richard then Samuel was called after her father.

Go forward 20 years or so and try to find marriages for those boys, but check first if any of them died before they grew up.

Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bentley family - looking for explanation on confusing baptism dates
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 15 August 17 03:49 BST (UK) »
Marriage 16th May 1852 St. James, Wardleworth. John Bentley, minor, bachelor, engineer, abode Bridge Mill, father Richard Bentley, engineer. Samuel Bentley was a witness. That doesn't help a lot. The John who was born August 1832 would still have been a minor in May 1853.

Another John Bentley married at same church in September of that year. He was illegitimate son of John Hoyle & Betty Bentley. He'd also been baptised at Hallford Chapel in 1832. (I'd wondered if John Bates Bentley might have been illegitimate.)

I noticed several John Bentleys with middle names which were surnames. Maybe it was to distinguish them.
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bentley family - looking for explanation on confusing baptism dates
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 15 August 17 04:42 BST (UK) »
Only 1 son John with Richard & Grace on 1841 & '51 census.
Several Brearly families at Bridge Mill in 1841.
Cowban


Offline sccond

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bentley family - looking for explanation on confusing baptism dates
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 16 August 17 02:21 BST (UK) »
Hi Maiden Stone!  Thanks for your reply.  To answer some of your questions -
    Yes Bates is a family name. My GGGrandfather (Richard Bentley's nephew) is William Bates Bentley.  There are 3 males with the middle name Bates that I've found.  And the family does seem to use family names as middle names.  Has been helpful for sure!
    All of Richard and Grace's other children where either baptized at St. Bartholmews or St. Chads.
    Yes, I have Graces's parents as Samuel and Sarah also.
    The only death I can see for a John in the correct time period, is a John Heap Bentey, but his mother is Nancy.  And the only marriage I can see that makes sense is the one you found.
   So back to square one - which John (or are they one and the same) is in the 1841 & 1851?? 

     Thanks for your help!!!


Bentley-Lancs & West Yorkshire, Schofield- Lancs, Cooke & Abbott-Northamptonshire & Canada, Smith & Careless-Staffs, Stewart-Scotland & Canada, Hamill-Ireland, Canada & Maine

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bentley family - looking for explanation on confusing baptism dates
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 16 August 17 03:51 BST (UK) »
A theory I have is that the curate at St. Bart's asked if little John had been baptised. Perhaps when Samuel was being written up in the baptismal register he'd checked for John's baptism and not found it. Not wishing to cause offence by admitting he'd been baptised at the chapel ,  :-[ his parents agreed to a baptism at the parish church.
Another explanation; the parents were of different religious persuasions, or their families were.
They were very quick in the child production department.

Whilst looking at Richard Bentley on LanOPC I noticed others with the same name. Richard Bentley & wife Ellen in Holcombe had a 2 month-old daughter baptised 30th Nov. 1827, then in May 1828 their son, aged almost 3 was baptised. Similar thing with children of another Richard Bentley in neighbouring parish of Haslingden.




 
Cowban

Offline sccond

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bentley family - looking for explanation on confusing baptism dates
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 17 August 17 00:27 BST (UK) »
I think I might have to go with your theory.  Right now I have both Johns' in my tree.  Since I couldn't find a death of the first John, I'll have to assume that they are one and the same.  The John in the 1841 & 1851 census's are a year older that Samuel so that makes sense.

Thanks again for your help!
Bentley-Lancs & West Yorkshire, Schofield- Lancs, Cooke & Abbott-Northamptonshire & Canada, Smith & Careless-Staffs, Stewart-Scotland & Canada, Hamill-Ireland, Canada & Maine