Coachman to Lord Sefton

[amondg]

 The will of William Norman written 1794 states his cousin is Susannah Watts wife of John Watts
coachman to Lord Sefton.

The will of Lady Sefton 1819 mentions her coachman Richard Watts.

Is Richard the son of John and Susannah Watts who took over his fathers position after he retired?

Is Lancashire the place to start?

[ShaunJ]

There's an 1821 newspaper report (Public Ledger and Daily Advertiser 20 December 1821) of an inquest into the accidental death in the Berkeley Square area of "R.Watts" coachman to Lady Cremorne, aged about 60. There's a corresponding burial on 23 December 1821 at St Luke's Chelsea of Richard Watts aged 58, died in an accident. Could be the same Richard Watts who served as coachman to Lady Sefton?

[amondg]

Thank you.
Well at 58 he wouldn't be the son of John and Susannah, being a coachman I didn't think to check newspapers.

[Maiden Stone]

Thank you.
Well at 58 he wouldn't be the son of John and Susannah, being a coachman I didn't think to check newspapers.

That depends on how old John & Susannah were? Richard would have ben around 30 in 1794.

[Maiden Stone]

The will of William Norman written 1794 states his cousin is Susannah Watts wife of John Watts
coachman to Lord Sefton.

The will of Lady Sefton 1819 mentions her coachman Richard Watts.

Is Richard the son of John and Susannah Watts who took over his fathers position after he retired?

Is Lancashire the place to start?

Biographical info on Earls of Sefton:
Charles Molyneux (1748-1795), 1st Earl of Sefton. He, presumably was the Lord Sefton referred to by William Norman in his 1794 will as being employer of John Watts . Married Isabella Stanhope (1748-1819), Countess of Sefton. It would have been her will in which Richard Watts was mentioned.
William Molyneux (1772-1838), 2nd Earl of Sefton. Acquired the nickname "Lord Dashalong" because of his habit of racing through London Streets in a carriage with 4 horses. He was a founder member of the "Four-in-Hand" also known as the Four Horse Club. Keen sportsman, seemingly anything involving horses. Member of Parliament. Friend of the Prince Regent. Residences: Family seat at Croxteth Hall, Liverpool, Stoke Farm, Berkshire and 21 Arlington St., London.

They may have taken some servants from Lancashire with them to London. On the other hand, they may have employed local staff. A coachman , obviously would have moved between all their residences.  Charles, 1st Earl lost his father when he was 8. I don't know if he was brought up at Croxteth Hall or elsewhere. What I know about him is that he conformed to the Church of England as a youth and was rewarded with an earldom. It's possible that his guardians got rid of some old family retainers (Catholic ones) and replaced them with their own choice.

Molyneux Collection, see  National Archives catalogue. Deposited in 4 places: Lancashire Archives, Croxteth Hall, Liverpool Record Office and Sheffield Archives. On past occasions I've looked at lists of items in the Molyneux papers in Lancashire Archives on-line catalogue LanCat. There's a lot of it. They'd held land  there since The Conquest. Look at National Archives catalogue first. That gives an idea of what's in each local collection.

A pity 2nd Earl of Sefton died before 1841 census. I was going to suggest looking at his residences to see if there were any servants named Watts in any of them, perhaps son or grandson of Richard or John.

My 3xGGM had a brother-in-law, Tom Crossthwaite, who was a coachman. He lived in Winckley Square, Preston, where the "Quality" lived, among them the Cliftons of Lytham Hall, related to the Molyneux family several times over. I looked at "my" coachman's life and his family background. He'd been a servant and footman and groom. His father was an ostler (looked after horses at an inn.) Another older relative was a blacksmith. Some younger members of the Crossthwaite family were also coachmen.

[amondg]

Good point about age of Richard.

[Maiden Stone]

Charles Molyneux (1796-1855), 3rd Earl of Sefton was at his family seat, Croxteth Hall in Lancashire, for the 1851 census. As well as 40+ people in the Hall, there were numerous others (several census pages) in other properties. Among a whole lot of grooms and stable hands in one building was Charles Watts,    aged 23, born in Gloucestershire. I can't read the town or parish. The staff came from all over the place, Britain, Ireland, France, a German governess. There were some from Lancashire.
I didn't look at 1841 census.
Other residences of 3rd Earl of Sefton: Stoke Farm, Berkshire; Sefton House, Belgrave Square, London.
That's 2 Earls who were MPs before they inherited the earldom,  so they would have spent a large part of each year in London.

[Maiden Stone]

1841 census. Several young Charles Watts in Gloucestershire. One of particular interest had a room over the kennels, next to the stables at Badminton House. This is where Badminton Horse Trials are held. Thinking back to the 2nd Earl, the sporty, horsey one, exactly the sort of place he'd hang out. Duke of Beaufort, owner of Badminton House, was Master of the Beaufort Hunt; 2nd Earl of Sefton was Master of the Quorn Hunt (mainly Leicestershire). These are the two most famous Hunts in England. The Great Hall of Badminton House was hung with life-size portraits of horses.

[amondg]

Thank you for naming the properties where I might find clues.
I had tried to find children of John and Susannah Watts, if they travelled with the Earl then I need to look in Berkshire and Lancashire as well.