Author Topic: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall  (Read 1984 times)

Offline Jamjar

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Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #81 on: Tuesday 05 September 17 12:57 BST (UK) »
I wonder if this could be the birth in UK of Fanny's father?

PHELPS, WILLIAM NEWTON mmn CHAMBERS
GRO Reference: 1839  D Quarter in THE CHELTENHAM UNION  Volume 11  Page 184

Jamjar
Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams

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Offline Jamjar

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Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #82 on: Tuesday 05 September 17 14:50 BST (UK) »
Clutching at straws I know, but what do you think, Rodney?

Regarding land Kadina, formerly owned by the deceased William Phelps. 3rd column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article159531044

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article92276151

Wife of deceased William married Amos Richards in 1866:

1866   67/327 RICHARDS Amos PHILPS Elizabeth Adelaide

Marriage notice: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article110103044

They have a son in 1876, note the middle name:

1876   164/137 RICHARDS Walter Newman Amos RICHARDS and Elizabeth DAVIS Daly

Son is sent to Industrial School and Amos is a widower, with 3 children at home:

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article110507312

Elizabeth's death: 1881 109/79 RICHARDS Elizabeth Amos RICHARDS (H) Daly

I can't see William's death, but he's alive November 1864, 2nd last column:

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article159527397

A William and Elizabeth Phelps arriving SA August 9 1959 on the ESCORT, 1st column:

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article1195956

Jamjar
Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams

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Offline Rodney53

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Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #83 on: Tuesday 05 September 17 21:55 BST (UK) »
Hello Cando,

The main thread of this topic was more obscure than many, not helped at all by the fact that there was a change in name use on electoral rolls by one key person of interest (Eustace John Rupert Morgan altered his enrolment name some how to John Morgan and the other was based on no more than a scribbled name on an old document (Frances Wall, which turns out to be Hall).

In trying to clarify this, contributions went to the children of this pair, and then meandered to related Morgans. I had from the start a fair overview of the Morgans and along the way contributors have hit upon research which has shed light on some other Morgan connections, enlightening if astray from the original question. I am very grateful for the new information provided by these meanderings, unanticipated and helpful outcomes.

Rodney53


Offline cando

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Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #84 on: Wednesday 06 September 17 00:11 BST (UK) »
Thank you Rodney.   The presentation was rather hard to follow but now I see some of the posts have been edited and additional information added.

Regarding Jamjar's latest post.  I had explored this path including the death and remarriage of William PHELP's first wife, Elizabeth Ann nee DAVIS.  The shipping record and the first marriage have William's second given name as Albert. I dismissed this Wm with second given name Albert however according to a SA birth registrations it appears his name was William Albert Newton PHELPS 

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Marriages Jun 1859   
DAVIS Elizabeth        Stroud    6a/529    
PHELPS William Albert     Stroud    6a/529

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/escort1859.shtml
PHELPS    William Albert    20, Gardener   Elizabeth [DAVIS]    Stroud, Gloucester    
           
From Biographical Index of South Australians   Information gleaned from public records eg shipping, bdm's, etc as well as submitted information from descendants.  The information is not always accurate and needs further research.

PHELPS William born c1839 GLS ENG
Arrived on the ESCORT 1859
Occupation Gardener
Religion Church of England
Married by 1859 Elizabeth born c1840

PHELPS William
Arrived by 1863
Occupation Painter
Lived   Kadina      Religion Church of England
Married Elizabeth
Children Elizabeth Alice 1863-.

Births in SA - from my resource.
PHELPS Francis William
18 Mar 1861
Father William PHELPS  Mother Elizabeth DAVIS
At Kapunda  Kap 22/181    [Died aged 10 months 14 Jan 1862 at Kadina  Ade 9/342]

Mistranscribed surname.
PHILLIPS Mary Fanny
4 Nov 1864
Father William Albert Newton PHILLIPS   Mother Elizabeth DAVIS
At Kapunda   Kap 35/233

There are many birth registrations missing in SA and not all were due to the failure of the parents to register the births of their children. Another subject in itself and a book has been written about bdm in SA.

I think this is Wm's death.
PHILLPS William  25 years  Status not recorded  Relative not recorded
8 Dec 1864
Residence Kapunda   Death Place Kapunda   Kap 19/240
 
Second marriage with more info
RICHARDS Amos 28 years Status not recorded  Father James RICHARDS
PHILPS Elizabeth  25 years  Status Widow  Father Thomas DAVIS
25 Jun 1866
At the residence of Mrs Philps, Kadina    Ade 67/327

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article39251116
South Australian Register  9 Jun 1871
HITT V. RICHARDS AND OTHERS.
Mr. Palmer for the plaintiff ; Mr. Cox for Richards and wife; and Mr. Way for infant defendants.
This was a suit by the plaintiff as equitable mortgagee by transfer of an allotment of land
in Kadina, formerly the property of William Phelps, deceased, intestate. The widow had
married Amos Richards, and the other defendants were two children of the intestate. The bill prayed that accounts might be taken of what was due, and defendants decreed to pay the same, with costs of suit, or in default the property sold.

Two children of the intestate - Mary Fanny and Alice May?

Cando
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

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Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #85 on: Wednesday 06 September 17 01:50 BST (UK) »
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article201131685
In Memoriam
MORGAN— In loving remembrance of my dearly beloved husband, Henry Adam Morgan, who died on the 2nd. January, 1912 at 163 Evans-street, Port Melbourne.
Sadly missed.
—Inserted by his loving wife, son and nephews, Walter and Syd. Brown.

MORGAN— In sad and loving memory of my dear brother Henry, who died at Evans-street, Port Melbourne, 2nd January, 1912.
In memory he still lives.
—Inserted by his loving sister Letitia.

Wouldn't the son be Alice's son, Henry Herbert HASSELL born 1884 Hotham, Vic but noted as Henry, 27 son of Henry Adam MORGAN on his 1912 death certificate.  Henry HASSELL and Alice PHELPS also had a dau Alice and she is mentioned as deceased on Henry MORGAN's death certificate.

I also noticed that Henry Adam MORGAN was, according to his death certificate, married to Alice PHELPS at the age of 23 ie c1883 as he was born 1860.  Alice married Henry Herbert HASSELL in 1883 ::).

Cando

Edited to amend dates.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Rodney53

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Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #86 on: Wednesday 06 September 17 18:37 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Cando.

Yes, name changes, mis-spellings and deliberate misrepresentations all add to the ambiguities.

I'm not at all sure that Henry Morgan and Alice Phelps were married. There is an absence of records for Morgan marriages and I wonder whether the situation was not formalised.

I am also perplexed that the son Henry mentioned on Henry Morgan's death cert. does not seem to appear of electoral rolls even though both "parents" register.

Much appreciated.

Rodney53


Offline Rodney53

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Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #87 on: Wednesday 06 September 17 18:59 BST (UK) »
Thanks, jamjar.

Just noticed the death notice of Fanny Thomas. And the court case over the land in Kadina.

Rodney53

Offline sparrett

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Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #88 on: Wednesday 06 September 17 23:28 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Cando.

Yes, name changes, mis-spellings and deliberate misrepresentations all add to the ambiguities.

I'm not at all sure that Henry Morgan and Alice Phelps were married. There is an absence of records for Morgan marriages and I wonder whether the situation was not formalised.

I am also perplexed that the son Henry mentioned on Henry Morgan's death cert. does not seem to appear of electoral rolls even though both "parents" register.

Much appreciated.

Rodney53



Hi Rodney,
Re a marriage between MORGAN and PHELPS.
If you read back through your large number of replies ;D you will see the death notice for henry Herbert HASSELL linked.
In 1930's
"Husband of the late Alice"

There was no Morgan PHELPS marriage and through his death notice, there was a wish to make that perfectly clear.
 Interesting I think, that it does not also does not say "and father of  ....... Alice May (dec) and Henry (jnr)"

Re Harry (jnr) not being registered to vote.
He may well have used the surname HASSEL by the age off 21 years.  His choice after all.

There are some by that name registered to vote including a chap in Western Australia.
Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk