Author Topic: panormo  (Read 3468 times)

Offline avm228

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Re: panormo
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 30 August 17 14:04 BST (UK) »
I looked on rootsireland.ie index and there are no records for Panormo & variations around 1780- 1800 [not complete records though],

William claims to have been born in London per 1851, and indeed Francis was recorded in Kensington for tax purposes in 1797, so it may be that the Irish link came later.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: panormo
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 30 August 17 14:11 BST (UK) »


ADDED: However quite a few references to Panormo in Irish newspapers....so am trawling through the early ones - perhaps these are where you found reference to Francis?

Reference to Francis being in Dublin here: www.dublinmusictrade.ie/node/355

...but no, I haven't been through Irish newspapers.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline josey

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Re: panormo
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 30 August 17 14:12 BST (UK) »
From irishgenealogy:
Area - DUBLIN (RC) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. MARY, PRO CATHEDRAL
Baptism of CECILIA PANORMO of N/R on 27 May 1821

Name   CECILIA PANORMO
Date of Birth   N/R N/R N/R
Address   N/R
Father   FERDINANDO PANORMO
Mother   MARIA
Sponsor 1   THOMAS CARROLL
Sponsor 2   ELIZA

ADDED: Looks, from avm's link, like Ferdinand was Francis' son.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline josey

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Re: panormo
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 30 August 17 14:18 BST (UK) »
And more Panormos
Area - DUBLIN (RC) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. ANDREW
Marriage of JOHN ANDERSON of N/R and AMELIA PANORMO of N/R on 30 October 1844
Husband                                   Wife
Name   JOHN ANDERSON   AMELIA PANORMO
Address   N/R   N/R
Occupation   N/R   N/R
Father   ANDERSON   PANORMO
Mother   N/R   N/R
Witness 1   JOHN ANDERSON
Witness 2   MATILDA PANORMO

ADDED: And just to follow through - a Cecelia Panormo married a John George Rudge Millett in St Peter's Melbourne on 18 Mar 1852, one witness is Sophie Panormo.

However getting off track here a bit now  ;D.

Perhaps Louis, William & Ferdinand were the 3 sons of Francis? All having children in the 1820s, so probably born 1780 - 1800...
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON


Offline avm228

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Re: panormo
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 30 August 17 14:31 BST (UK) »
How exciting - Cecilia WAS born in Ireland!  So how did she know William - was he her uncle?

NB I think the Cecilia who married in Australia may be the other one (daughter of Louis) in that his branch emigrated.  I think Louis died in New Zealand.

Louis I think was a younger brother (rather than son) of Francis - both were sons of Vincenzo.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline josey

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Re: panormo
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 30 August 17 14:34 BST (UK) »
Louis I think was a younger brother  (rather than son) of Francis - both were sons of Vincenzo.
Sorry, you found this out earlier & I forgot  :-[  ;)

As an aside, Francis had a bankruptcy discharged in Aug 1826 in Dublin.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline avm228

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Re: panormo
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 30 August 17 14:34 BST (UK) »
I wonder whether Matilda Panormo from the Irish record is the "Miss Maud Panormo" who performed with Cecilia and Madame etc in 1839 (Maud being traditionally a nickname for Matilda)?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline josey

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Re: panormo
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 30 August 17 14:36 BST (UK) »
Could be...if only we had Irish censuses  :'(

ADDED:
https://londonstreetviews.wordpress.com/category/27-broad-street-bloomsbury-division-2-nos-1-37-and-high-street-nos-22-67/
In the first quarter of the nineteenth century, the six-stringed guitar was introduced into England and one of the best maker of such guitars was Louis Panormo. His father, Vicenzo Panormo (1734-1813), originally a violin maker from Sicily, came to London via France with his four sons. The whole family was musically minded and many Panormos found work in London as instrument makers, musicians, music publishers and composers. There were to begin with Vicenzo’s four sons, Francis (1763-1843), Joseph (1768-1837), George (1776-1852) and Louis (1784-1862), but the next generation, Ferdinand (c.1795-1882), Robert (c.1803-1873), Edward (1811-1891), George Lewis (1815-1877) and Angelina (1811-1900) were also involved in the world of music.

........

When the next daughter, Mathilda, is baptised, the mother is listed as Sarah and the address is High Street, which does correspond to the guitar labels. More children were born to Louis and Sarah and when addresses are given in the baptismal records, they correspond to those on the guitar labels. Why Louis married Sarah Sutton only in 1834, many years after the children were born, remains a mystery.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Online heywood

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Re: panormo
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 30 August 17 14:45 BST (UK) »
Here is some information re that Panormo family with a tree - perhaps incomplete - on page 11.

http://theguitar-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/the-panormo-guitar-and-its-makers.pdf
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk