Author Topic: 1851 Census for Alexander Maule  (Read 2298 times)

Offline Revolution

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Re: 1851 Census for Alexander Maule
« Reply #9 on: Friday 01 September 17 12:38 BST (UK) »
Hi Monica

Yes I have Margarets death certificate. She died in 1882. Her parents are correct. Francis moved from Australia to New Zealand and died in 1874. Ive ordered his death certificate but its unlikely to be useful and as it wont name his parents. Margaret stayed in Australia. I havent worked out if he left her or was going to move the family out. Some of the children from his first family moved to New Zealand as well whereas his second family stayed in Australia.

Ive seen the two census entries. Most unusual. Could the census have been done further apart than the 30/31 March date so that Francis was recorded in one place and the other weeks apart - pre and post marriage?

Young Alexander died 30 Jan 1855 aboard the ship they emigrated on. I have the death certificate.
McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick

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Offline MonicaL

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Re: 1851 Census for Alexander Maule
« Reply #10 on: Friday 01 September 17 21:37 BST (UK) »
The two entries for a Francis Maul in 1851 and households give such quite different details in terms of ages, occupations for each Francis and children's names and ages :-\ Different households I would say.

Certainly widowed Francis from 1851 fits well with the Francis who married Margaret and their details on the manifest in 1855.

The other entry has so many details that would match for Alexander. Right age and occupation as labourer. Also the ages of Margaret (who shows as wife on a/try transcript) and the children Robert and Alexander. I am wondering if the 3yr old Janet could have been born to Margaret Hall and Alexander? Big problem that the head of household is showing as Francis! From the general index, SP also have this household as we have, with head showing as Francis. Can't see anything for this Francis in 1841 on SP or Freecen either.

Monica

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline MonicaL

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Re: 1851 Census for Alexander Maule
« Reply #11 on: Friday 01 September 17 21:51 BST (UK) »
One other thing linking the two entries I see is that Margaret and Francis' marriage/banns are showing in Logie, where we have the household headed up by the 47yr old Francis Maule (who I wondered could be in error for Alexander).

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: 1851 Census for Alexander Maule
« Reply #12 on: Friday 01 September 17 21:55 BST (UK) »

...Francis moved from Australia to New Zealand and died in 1874. Ive ordered his death certificate but its unlikely to be useful and as it wont name his parents. Margaret stayed in Australia. I havent worked out if he left her or was going to move the family out. Some of the children from his first family moved to New Zealand as well whereas his second family stayed in Australia.


Francis' burial index entry in 1874 shows that he had moved over from Australia and had been living in NZ for 7 years. Looks like a long term break between him and Margaret possibly?

Aged 65 in 1874 when he died would make him born c. 1809...adds to the confusion!

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: 1851 Census for Alexander Maule
« Reply #13 on: Friday 01 September 17 22:32 BST (UK) »
Revolution, sorry for all my questions!

What makes you think that Alexander and Francis were brothers? I do not think that marriage between an uncle and niece were permitted by law www.familytreeforum.com/content.php/372-Forbidden-Marriages

Francis's parents are possibly:

Francis MAULE to John MAULE and Jean SCOTLAND
11/08/1812 in Clackmannan

I thought this might fit for Alexander maybe:

Alexander MAULE to John MAULE and Janet SIBBET
chr. 07/01/1804 in Tulliallan

See www.maulefamily.com/fam_grp_charts/mfg_20.htm and www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=248059.0

Now Tulliallan is in Perthshire and very close to Kincardine...which reminds me of that 1851 census entry for a 47 year old Francis Maule again!

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Revolution

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Re: 1851 Census for Alexander Maule
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 02 September 17 11:20 BST (UK) »
Hi Monica

Good to have ones data looked at independently.

In the 1841 census of the Francis with Jamet/Janet I thought this may have been Alexanders daughter born in 1828. I have the baptism. Alex then sends Janet off to work for her uncle.

John Maule and Jane Sibbett potentially had

John (death certificate says John Maule and Janet Sibbett)
Alexander (baptism says John Maule and Janet Sibbett)
Francis
Robert
Anne

As for marriage between cousins. Ive seen some inter family marrying before irrespective of the laws.

As for the other rootschat Maule post. I havent seen the other John Maule and Janet Sibbet children before. At least half of the extra names arent carried in the children of Alexander or Francis. John has a Thomas in his children but that is his wifes fathers name. I haven't been able to find Jane Sibbet or John Maule Sr death

The Robert Maule mentioned in that post is interesting albeit not enlightening as to his linkage

Robert Maul (I cant find his death or anything else) M Catherine Meiklejohn
Thier son
Robert Maule 1831-1901 M Charlotte Rankine
Thier son
(Sir) Robert Maule 1852-1931 M Janet Todd

Could the second Francis Maule 1851 census be Alexander? It could well be. Ive seen odder things!
McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick

Offline MonicaL

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Re: 1851 Census for Alexander Maule
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 02 September 17 12:18 BST (UK) »
Re Robert Maule and wife Catherine Meiklejohn, like you, hard to find more details on him so far. Thinking he might have died pre 1841? Their son Robert mentioned here www.maulefamily.com/fam_grp_charts/mfg_18.htm was born 1831 as stated https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1K1-Y2N

Haven't found son and parents so far in 1841, likely due to spelling of surname?

His mother and other Maule deaths showing at Tulliallan cemetery indexed here www.memento-mori.co.uk/65.pdf  Catherine Meiklejohn Maule died 1878 at the age of 69. Reference there to a Robert Maule but without an age hard to say which Robert Maule he may be.

Monica

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: 1851 Census for Alexander Maule
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 02 September 17 12:25 BST (UK) »
These look to be some details on Ann, daughter of John and Janet (Sibbet):

Last Name:   Black
First Name:    John Richard
Date of Birth:   1803
Place of Birth:   South Leith
Parents Father:   Alexander Black
Parents Mother:   Elizabeth
Name of Spouse:   widower of Ann Maule, b. 13 Jul 1805 chr. 24 Aug 1805 Tulliallan, Perth, Scotland, to John Maule and Janet Sibbet; she d. 13 May 1875 Simonstown, Cape
Marriage Date:
Marriage Place:
Date of Death:   7 Nov 1883 age 80
Place of Death:  Simonstown, Cape   

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: 1851 Census for Alexander Maule
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 02 September 17 12:40 BST (UK) »
John, son of John and Janet should be easy enough to confirm.

From his details here www.maulefamily.com/fam_grp_charts/mfg_50.htm Family's 1851 entry here:

John Maud 40 lab. b. Kincardine, Perthshire
Catherine Maud 41
Thomas Maud 13
Alexander Maud 8
Ann Maud 8

Address: Bridge End, Tillicoultry, Clackmannanshire

Death on 11 July 1885, Laurieston, Falkirk? Entry on SP index showing as ref 479/2 132 in Falkirk Landward.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk