Author Topic: Cannot locate Patrick in 1901  (Read 388 times)

Offline ballydw

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Cannot locate Patrick in 1901
« on: Sunday 03 September 17 22:03 BST (UK) »
Patrick John Roche born Kildorrery Co Cork 1890. I have details on his later life but do not know his parents names. He ended up in Zimbabwe Africa & died there in 1958 having served in WW1
Cannot find him on 1901 census where I had hoped to find his parents names. Thank you

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Offline Sinann

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Re: Cannot locate Patrick in 1901
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 03 September 17 23:22 BST (UK) »
A possible Patrick born 1889 Kildorrery parents James a shopkeeper and Margaret O'Brien
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02461/1914236.pdf

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Offline Sinann

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Re: Cannot locate Patrick in 1901
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 03 September 17 23:39 BST (UK) »
I wonder...
There is this family
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Kildorrery/Oldcastle_Town__Kildorrery/1152435/
And there is a birth of a Hanoria to the same couple as Patrick posted above
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02524/1935381.pdf

IF it is the correct family it looks like something has happened to them.

The father died Dec 1892, Maurice D informant
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/06008/4710050.pdf
Married so wife still alive.
Margaret died 1895, Maurice D informant
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05929/4683800.pdf

Offline Sinann

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Re: Cannot locate Patrick in 1901
« Reply #3 on: Monday 04 September 17 00:07 BST (UK) »
Did his Army record give an occupation before he joined up?
There is a Patrick with his Uncle John Roche in Mitchlestown but his age is 16, he's a Harrness Maker,
And there is an 11 year old with the Nash family in Ballynoe.

Offline myluck!

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Re: Cannot locate Patrick in 1901
« Reply #4 on: Monday 04 September 17 10:54 BST (UK) »
Can you clarify what details you have of his WW1 service please?
Also do you have him in 1911?

If this is the correct family that Sinann has given details of...
Patrick ROCHE s/o James and Margaret (nee O'BRIEN) was baptised on Aug 14 1889
His sponsors were Nicholas FLEMMING and Margaret NASH
This would tie in with him living with the NASH family in 1901 aged 11 - LINK

Patrick 1889 LINK

Siblings (at least)
Maurice 1879 LINK
William 1880 LINK
Mary Anne 1882 LINK
John 1883 LINK
Margaret 1885 LINK married Feb 6 1910 James KENT LINK; 1911 census LINK
Hanoria Maria (Nora) 1888 LINK; married Alfred OSBOURN
James 1891 LINK

1911 census shows James and Nora living with their Aunt Ellen LINK
I don't see a marraige for Nora but this is Rita's birth as Marguerita Mabel Jane OSBURN LINK
Father shown as Alfred George Howard OSBURN; agent at law of Cape Colony

As Patrick in later life went to Zimbabwe this may be a tenuous link! or a red herring!!

HOWEVER
There is a family tree online that claims the Patrick ROCHE who died in Zimbabwe was in the RA Med Corp as Regt#103200
It gives details of his wife and daughter in Zimbabwe.
The linked army record details a man who was born in Fermoy, Co. Cork
but his mother was his next of kin in 1915; Nora ROCHE of Jones Road, Dublin

1901 census LINK and 1911 census LINK for this family
They may have made the wrong connection as this person is Patrick Joseph but they may also have more information that helped them make the link.
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline rathmore

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Re: Cannot locate Patrick in 1901
« Reply #5 on: Monday 04 September 17 15:18 BST (UK) »
family search, died bulawayo 12.7.1958

born in Cork residence place Dubliln

http://www.familysearch.org  regiment no. 103200

find my past

http://www.findmypast.co.uk

if its your Patrick mother called Norah lived at 25 Jones Road Dublin he was a civil servant




Offline dathai

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Offline myluck!

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Re: Cannot locate Patrick in 1901
« Reply #7 on: Monday 04 September 17 16:58 BST (UK) »
rathmore
I agree that if the WW1 record for Patrick ROCHE 103200 is the same man that died in 1958 then he is with his family on the 1901 and 1911 census at Jones' Road Dublin as given by myself and dathai

However the original request for Patrick John Roche born Kildorrery Co Cork 1890 is very specific so I wonder if they are the same person?

Also the army record give a middle name of Joseph
This man was baptised in Fermoy on Mar 17 1890 and his seven siblings were all baptised there as well from 1879 to 1889; John ROCHE m Hanora SULLIVAN on Jul 16 1878 in Fermoy

I think ballydw needs to clarify some details first to iron this out
If the army record is correct the family in Dublin is
If the army record is an assumption and there is a link to Kildorrery then the Cork based family probably is more likely to be correct
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline ballydw

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Re: Cannot locate Patrick in 1901
« Reply #8 on: Monday 04 September 17 17:21 BST (UK) »
Thank you to all the posters for your detailed information on possibilities for Patrick. I am doing this research for a descendant of his who has little information.

Regarding his military record all I have is:

A scroll from King George v's Office appointing him as a 2nd Lieutenant for Land Forces 8th March 1919.  Have no further military information.

It is interesting that the Roche family in Jones Rd Dublin were all born Co Cork so difficult to decide which family is correct as the Patrick Roche on census with Nash in Ballynoe Cork is also interesting.