Author Topic: Mother's surname for Robert Harold Williams junior b1894 Cardiff area  (Read 3324 times)

Offline Jamjar

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Re: Mother's surname for Robert Harold Williams junior b1894 Cardiff area
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 07 September 17 14:20 BST (UK) »
Robert Jnr and Mary Thomas marriage, I think:

Dec 1911 Carnarvon 11b 772
Robert H Williams and Mary Thomas

Jamjar

Added: Maybe not, as if correct on the 1911 census she would have been 14/15 at time of marriage.

Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams

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Offline jonw65

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Re: Mother's surname for Robert Harold Williams junior b1894 Cardiff area
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 07 September 17 14:29 BST (UK) »
my grandfather Robert Harold junior , born 1894 (but marriage cert shows his name as Harold only)

The marriage - of Harold Williams - is the place to start I think.
Don't ask me if this is the right one!
June 1919 Pontypridd 11a 1585
Thomas, Mary
Williams, Harold

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Offline Dundee

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Re: Mother's surname for Robert Harold Williams junior b1894 Cardiff area
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 07 September 17 14:30 BST (UK) »
JENKINS, GLADYS  CECELIA CONSTANCE
Mother's maiden name: BAKER
GRO Reference: 1898  D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD  Volume 11A  Page 510

1911 census

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW6R-MXM

Debra  :)

Offline Jamjar

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Re: Mother's surname for Robert Harold Williams junior b1894 Cardiff area
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 07 September 17 14:49 BST (UK) »
Parents of Mary Thomas: John and Avina

Brothers death:

2868/1936 THOMAS William parents JOHN and AVINA NEWCASTLE

Census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWXS-7CF

Jamjar

Added: Death: 55096/1974 WILLIAMS Mary parents JOHN and AVRINE
Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams

Offline Annette7

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Re: Mother's surname for Robert Harold Williams junior b1894 Cardiff area
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 07 September 17 16:23 BST (UK) »
Aside from being complicated with such a common surname the inconsistencies re. Christian names aren't helping.

Robert senior married Gladys Jenkins as plain Robert - by 1939 Gladys is a widow so he died between 1924 and 1939 and, once again, there is no death entry for a Robert H. in this timeframe so presumably his death registered as plain Robert too.

I think that Melba E Williams married a Michael Skorka in 1945 Gloucester - in 1946 she is living in London (electoral rolls) and in 1949 she and husband are living in Fort William, Ontario and so I'm guessing he was a Canadian serviceman.

However, the Robert Harold Williams b.1894 who died 17/2/1969 Gosford, NSW shows in Australian Military records for WW2 that he was born 13/4/1894 Cardiff but goes on to state Next of Kin R. Williams (presumably father) but his father was deceased by 1939 and surely his next of kin would have been his wife.   Doesn't seem to make sense.   Plus said Robert Harold Williams had a warrant issued for his arrest by the Paddington Bench (Redfern), NSW (9/7/1913 Australian Police Gazette, NSW) charged with committing a breach of the Defence Act (failing to attend a compulsory drill) aged 18.    My point being that this RHW was already in NSW in 1913, in army there, so surely can't be the right man (or am I missing something here).

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Offline jonw65

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Re: Mother's surname for Robert Harold Williams junior b1894 Cardiff area
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 07 September 17 17:09 BST (UK) »
am I missing something here
A lot seems to be missing, it is not adding up at all.
I think the next of kin is wife, Mrs R H Williams
Her husband was dead by 1953 according to the army records

At the moment the earliest sighting of this man seems to be his marriage to Mary Thomas. Which is why the full details from the certificate would be helpful.
John

Offline josey

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Re: Mother's surname for Robert Harold Williams junior b1894 Cardiff area
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 07 September 17 17:59 BST (UK) »
Good detective work everyone!!
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline curlytop2

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Re: Mother's surname for Robert Harold Williams junior b1894 Cardiff area
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 07 September 17 23:35 BST (UK) »
Thank you everyone for your time and effort , I had no idea my post would attract such attention , I'm a little overwhelmed. I will try to address all replies in the following :

I have no b/cert for RH snr as I have not enough evidence to apply

I have no b/c for RH jnr although I know all the relevant information but cannot pinpoint it on records , have tried 2x

both were miners as were most of the males in my family , no professionals at all

have transcript only of marriage RH snr to Gladys Jenkins 1917 , Pontypridd

Re my comment re death cert for RH jnr : don't know what happened with my typing there Jamjar , but I think I have posted info that his mother's name is stated as Margaret Williams and I don't know if our family provided information would have been reliable , my g marriagerandparents never spoke about their family back in Wales. There are several possibilities for a Margaret Williams as wife and with so many Williams's around that would be quite possible .

I do have relevant documentation for RH jnr and Mary Thomas from the time of  their marriage in 1919 Pontypridd , military record , addresses etc in Australia , I knew these people very well .

Our Gladys is Gladys A Jenkins 1896 , Pontypridd

jonw65 :: I also think the place to start , is the marriage of RH jnr and Mary , and your information is correct , but the certificate doesn't give me any info that I can use that I didn't already know . Gladys Williams was a witness to the marriage by  the way .
I will add another post

Offline curlytop2

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Re: Mother's surname for Robert Harold Williams junior b1894 Cardiff area
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 07 September 17 23:45 BST (UK) »
continuing the saga :

Annette , your info re Melba is correct , but our RH jnr came to Australia in 1925 as a soldier settler.
I think you may have two different RHWs , there is a number of them in Australia too !

The first one you mention IS my grandfather RHjnr and on his Service Record it does cite R Williams , his father as NOK , but on his Mobilisation Enrolment form it cites his wife.I can also match up addresses and army numbers as well as names to be sure .Your second military RHW was not my grandfather , as you concluded.

From verbal family information now unable to be verified , and guesswork :

Margaret Williams might have died about 1906 as RHjnr was ABOUT 12 yo when she died

RH snr might have been born about 1873-4 as the average marrying age for men seems to be about 20 yo.

Once again thank you everyone .