Mother's surname for Robert Harold Williams junior b1894 Cardiff area

[curlytop2]

Robert Harold Williams senior b ,1873 (guesstimate) .First wife Margaret ? , possibly Williams as well but can't prove anything. Margaret and Robert  had 2 boys , my grandfather Robert Harold junior , born 1894(but marriage cert shows his name as Harold only ) , and his brother Hugh (sp?) born about 2 years later and who was killed in France WW1 . I have found several potential Hughes but nothing confirmed.
In 1917 Pontypridd, RH senior married his second wife Gladys Jenkins b abt 1896 , a friend of my grandmother's and the same age , causing a little family friction . They had 2 children Roy b1920 and Melba b1924 , both born in Pontrpridd .
Robert junior and his wife Mary came to Australia in 1925/1926 , and I'm pretty sure that the last address in Wales for them was Caerau , Maesteg .
My problem is I want to go back further than RH senior and have been unable to do so to date with any certainty beyond the birth date of RH junior and marriage date to Gladys . Have applied for two birth certificates now that matched up names , initials and year dates but neither was correct .
If anyone has a hint here I would be very grateful .

[rosie99]

Have you tried searching the GRO index which gives mothers maiden names on birth registrations for this period
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

You will need to register but it is free

[jonw65]

Have you found your grandfather and his parents in the census? If so, can you post details

My problem is I want to go back further than RH senior and have been unable to do so to date with any certainty beyond the birth date of RH junior and marriage date to Gladys

Have you got his second marriage certificate, which should help?
June 1917 Pontypridd 11a 1107
Jenkins, Gladys
Williams, Robert   

It's possible that you might find one or both of them in the 1939 Register.
Is this military record, with digital images, relating to your Robert Harold Williams?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kod/

Which says that he was born 13 April 1894, Cardiff

[curlytop2]

Certificate of marriage to second wife no help as to name of first wife . I may be doing something wrong but have been unable to find his first family on census lists . On 1939 register I thought I had struck paydirt but the difference in birth years between Robert and Gladys was 2 instead of about 20 . He was old enough to be her father . Also the military records I have found for junior give no information about his mother .
Thank you for your interest .

[Cas (stallc)]

Do you have RH Jnr death cert in Australia? I think it gives names of parents and DOB, but I may be mistaken.

Would help to narrow possible birthday.

Which birthcerts have you obtained, so can rule out?

Cas

[josey]

Just checking - if you don't have Robert snr's marriage certificate or Robert jnr's birth certificate, what evidence do yo have for Margaret being the wife/mother's forename?

What was Robert snr's occupation on his marriage to Gladys? May help find him on census.

Josey

[Jamjar]

Have you found your grandfather and his parents in the census? If so, can you post details

My problem is I want to go back further than RH senior and have been unable to do so to date with any certainty beyond the birth date of RH junior and marriage date to Gladys

Have you got his second marriage certificate, which should help?
June 1917 Pontypridd 11a 1107
Jenkins, Gladys
Williams, Robert   

It's possible that you might find one or both of them in the 1939 Register.
Is this military record, with digital images, relating to your Robert Harold Williams?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kod/

Which says that he was born 13 April 1894, Cardiff

The link to NAA timed out. Try this one:

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=5566254

Jamjar

[Jamjar]

Do you have his death cert?

22646/1952 WILLIAMS Robert Harold parents ROBERT HAROLD and MARGARET NEWCASTLE

Jamjar

[curlytop2]

Thanks for military record Jamjar , I have those already . It's his mother's name that is the problem And death certificate as well. But thank you .