Mother's surname for Robert Harold Williams junior b1894 Cardiff area

[jonw65]

If it helps...

It all helps! Thank you.

[curlytop2]

JONW65 : no  we didn't frame all his medals but we did have the original ribbons for those that were "missing" and we were content with that . Also Robert snr is the definite father not just the possible father of RH jnr . He and his wife Gladys were spoken about in the family , she was my grandmother's best friend .

There is a number of interesting variations of the name "Avriina" . It is a family name as is Margaret .

My grandfather came to Australia as a soldier settler to Western Australia (I have the documentation) as a single man although he was already  married , and his wife and daughter came the following year . Everybody, I do have their Australian history as well as for those relatives who came before and after them. I cannot post all the information I have .

[jonw65]

Well, couldn't Robert and Margaret have married later?
Looking for Harold rather than Robert or a combination of the names.
And could he have been a couple of years older?
1901 possibility in Cardiff, Harold Williams, 8, with mother Margaret.
piece 4982 folio 123 page 35
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSMC-94T

If this chap was illegitimate, and whether he is relevant to this query or not, this might be the birth registration
June 1892 Cardiff 11a 417
Williams, Harold
mother  —

[jonw65]

My grandfather came to Australia as a soldier settler to Western Australia (I have the documentation)

I think he could have been a regular, judging from his entry date in WW1 and what I looked up re the RFA.
But I'm not a military expert.
From the limited info available, I've tried to find out what I can to aid in the hunt for Robert Harold Williams.
Good luck in your search for your ancestor!
John

[curlytop2]

John , I have tried searching ( for both of them) Harold , Robert , Robert Harold , Harold Robert , even BOb but to date no luck . I really don't think legitimacy is an issue , my grandmother's family knew them well and when HR jnr's mother Margaret died he did live with my grandmother's ( Mary) family .
Thank you for your input . If by any chance I come across anything relevant I will post it .
Mary

[Dundee]

....when HR jnr's mother Margaret died he did live with my grandmother's ( Mary) family .

He was not with Mary's family by 1911 and it is difficult to find anyone who fits the description in the area.

I did have 2 incorrect certs for Robert Harold b1894 (it was common knowledge he changed his birth date to enlist)

I'm not sure what you mean here.  A birth year of 1894-1896 would have made him old enough in 1914 or do you think he was even younger?  You haven't said how old he claimed to be when he married.

His age was irrelevant in WW2 as he enlisted in 1939 for home service with the CMF and the upper age was 60 years.  When he was transferred to the AIF in 1943 it would have been pointless to change the birth year from 1894 to 1896 as the upper age for soldiers was 40, but for officers and those on special assignment the age limit was discretionary.  I think the '1896' was just a mistake as his age is correct for an April 1894 birth - aged 48 in Feb 1943.

For future reference, you can apply for a birth cert with just the child's name, registration district and year, add the father's name to the form but do not give a reference number (just click on 'no' in the part that asks if you have the number).  If they cannot find a birth which matches the child and father's name in your designated year plus one year either side then you will get a 'no result' and will not be charged.

Instructions are here under  "If I don’t have the index reference number what will happen?"

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/most_customers_want_to_know.asp#OrderingCertificates

Debra 

[Annette7]

Dundee - whilst all you say is correct the problem is that the family believe the 13/4/1894 birthdate (which he used when in the army and clearly for the rest of his life) is believed to be incorrect as it was 'common knowledge that he changed his birthdate to enlist'.    So there is no point asking the GRO to do a search when the correct birth year is not known!

Annette

[curlytop2]

Dundee : It is all extremely confusing to say the least .
I did previously post the  age when he married , 26 , and his stated and celebrated  birth date is 13th April , so he turned 26 one month before their marriage in May , 1919.
As to how long he actually lived with the Thomas family I cannot say , I only know that he did . By 1911 Robert would have been about 17 , working on a birth year of 1894 ,and as schooling was not a prolonged affair , he would have been working by then and could have been living in a  rented room , or even back home with his father , I simply don't know and all possible family sources are gone. As the Thomas family still had 6 offspring at home in 1911 accommodation would have been pretty tight.