Author Topic: family history of travelling showmen  (Read 5325 times)

Offline Wendy Downie

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 09 September 17 08:41 BST (UK) »
To try and summarise, I think this is what we know about Armond Carloman, his wives and children:

Unknown date – born, Paris, France
1863/4 – Birth of son, William Carloman, Wolverhampton
1866 – Birth of son, Armond Carloman, Blackburn
1867 – Birth of son, Henry Carloman, Wolverhampton
1868 – Birth of daughter, Christina/Christancia Carloman, Birmingham
1870 – Birth and death of son, Albert Edward Carloman, Bury
1875 – Death of 1st wife, Mary/Maria Jordan, Newcastle upon Tyne
1880 – Marriage to 2nd wife, Catherine Johnston, Nottingham
1881 – Census, resident in Trallwmgollen, Montgomeryshire
1898 – Death, Belfast

So, can a marriage be found for Armond Carloman (XXXX – 1898) and Mary/Maria Jordan (c. 1831-1875), most likely a short time before 1864?

Did Armond and Catherine have any children?
Our great grandmother Angelina(Ann) was married in Glasgow on 25th May 1875, aged 18 to James Coats.  Her parents were Armond and Mary ms Jordan and both still living on that date.Would suggest wedding Armond/Mary was in 1850's and Angelina was his first child

Offline LizzieL

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 09 September 17 10:04 BST (UK) »
Hi Wendy, there is a birth of a Armond Carloman in Q1 of 1866 in Blackburn registration district. Is this your ancestor?

Do you know where Armand and William lived or how you have got back to them? It may help to share as much as you know.

Also, I see there is a James Armand Carloman (possible later relative) who served in WW1. He was born 16 January 1897 and his father was Henry and mother Mary Ann

from new GRO index, Armond Carloman's mother's maiden name was Horden. But can't find a likely marriagr

Looks like what the GRO index transcribes as Horden should be Jorden/ Jordan
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline Wendy Downie

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #29 on: Saturday 09 September 17 10:37 BST (UK) »
Hi Wendy, there is a birth of a Armond Carloman in Q1 of 1866 in Blackburn registration district. Is this your ancestor?

Do you know where Armand and William lived or how you have got back to them? It may help to share as much as you know.

Also, I see there is a James Armand Carloman (possible later relative) who served in WW1. He was born 16 January 1897 and his father was Henry and mother Mary Ann

from new GRO index, Armond Carloman's mother's maiden name was Horden. But can't find a likely marriagr

Looks like what the GRO index transcribes as Horden should be Jorden/ Jordan
Thankyou, we have so much conflicting documentation, that what started out as a half hour dalliance while a shower passed has turned into a marathon! Previous research had Catherine as mother but have now changed this to Mary Jordan but have been unable to find proof. We are relative newcomers to genealogy and not very IT literate so sruggling somewhat

Offline Vimto

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #30 on: Saturday 09 September 17 11:13 BST (UK) »
Hi Wendy, the proof of Mary Jordan being the mother of Angelina is evidenced in her 1875 marriage certificate, which shows her parents as Armond Carloman and Mary Jordan. You also have the baptismal record for Christina/Christancia in 1868, which cites her mother as Maria Jordan. What would be nice would be to find baptismal records for the other children, Angelina included, as well as finding a marriage between Armond Carloman and Mary/Maria Jordan.


Offline Wendy Downie

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #31 on: Saturday 09 September 17 18:46 BST (UK) »
Catherine left a will
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014912/005014912_00300.pdf
I think it should be available on one of the Northern Ireland sites but which one escapes me.
Hi, have just found will on ancestry, beneficiary a Thomas M'Candlis, another mystery!

Offline carolineasb

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 09 September 17 20:59 BST (UK) »
Have you contacted the Showmen's Guild to see what Archives they have?
Tannahill:  Ayrshire, Renfrewshire
Mulgrew/Milgrew:  Glasgow
Canning: Renfrewshire

Offline willsy

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 09 September 17 21:09 BST (UK) »
Just adding to davidqueneherve find

Gypsies in Britain” Author Brian Vesey-FitzGerald

There is a snippet view which mentions...their leader Jack Taylor...and a very tough individual Carloman

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kow/
Willsy

Ward, Newark (Nottingham), Leicester, Scarborough
Warren, Northampton, Leicester
Moore, Leicestershire
Hunt, Leicestershire
Kirkman, Leicestershire
Hurst, Leicester, Stowmarket
Kendrick, Leicestershire
Eld, Leicestershire
Essex Edey/Eady Elsden/Elsdon

Census Transcriptions are Crown Copyright from National Archives

Offline willsy

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 09 September 17 22:17 BST (UK) »
I popped Adam Forepaugh in Chronicling America and there are some wonderful advertisements

Here's a couple

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01koz/

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kox/

Adam Forepaugh...might help you look in America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Forepaugh

http://www.circusfans.org/res_det.php?res_id=328

http://www.circushistory.org/Routes/4P1878.htm



Willsy

Ward, Newark (Nottingham), Leicester, Scarborough
Warren, Northampton, Leicester
Moore, Leicestershire
Hunt, Leicestershire
Kirkman, Leicestershire
Hurst, Leicester, Stowmarket
Kendrick, Leicestershire
Eld, Leicestershire
Essex Edey/Eady Elsden/Elsdon

Census Transcriptions are Crown Copyright from National Archives

Offline willsy

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 09 September 17 22:40 BST (UK) »
Vimto

I really enjoyed looking at the papers after you posted your advice, it is very interesting.
Willsy

Ward, Newark (Nottingham), Leicester, Scarborough
Warren, Northampton, Leicester
Moore, Leicestershire
Hunt, Leicestershire
Kirkman, Leicestershire
Hurst, Leicester, Stowmarket
Kendrick, Leicestershire
Eld, Leicestershire
Essex Edey/Eady Elsden/Elsdon

Census Transcriptions are Crown Copyright from National Archives