Henry Saunders born circa 1824 Herstmonceux.

[artifis]

In the 1851 to 1911 censuses Henry is recorded as having been born at Herstmonceux.  At his wedding on 25 December 1848 at Battle to Jane Marchant the marriage certificate records his age as 24 giving a birth year of circa 1824 and his father as James Saunders. In the 1841 census he is with his father James and mother Mary and his two brothers, James and Thomas, at Herstmonceux.

I've found James' and Thomas' baptisms at the Herstmonceux Congregational Chapel on 14 Sep 1828 and 17 Apr 1831 respectively.  I can't find a baptism for Henry anywhere however including his father's birth parish - Heathfield or Waldron on censuses - or his mother's birth parish of Framfield.

I haven't found a marriage for James and Mary either.  There is one at Mayfield on 31 May 1823 - a James Saunders to a Mary Hesman - but I found that they had children baptised there including a son James whose baptism clashed with Henry's brother James' eliminating that family.

Can anyone find a possible baptism for Henry and/or a marriage for his parents please?

[CaroleW]

The 1841 shows James as 60 and Mary 50.  1851 has James aged 73 b Waldron and Mary 59 b Framfield

In 1841 their eldest child is Henry aged 15 but given James and Mary's ages I suspect either Mary was a second wife or their marriage was much earlier than Henrys birthyear and they had older children

If Mary was a second wife - possibly she is not Henry's mother

James died 1865 aged 92 and was buried 16.8.1865 at All Saints Herstmonceux

[jonw65]

Possible marriage at Brighton?
11 June 1821
James Saunders, widower
+
Mary Tapp, spinster
both of the parish
wit Ann Saunders, William Shelley?

A baptism at Framfield, 20 March 1791
Mary Tapp
parents Charles + Sarah

Might be worth looking into
John

[artifis]

Hi Carole.  Your thought that Mary might be James' second wife and possibly not the mother of Henry is something I'd not considered - if she was then she'd have been c 33 when he was born, c 37 when James was born and c 40 when Thomas was born based on her birth year of c 1791.  That does seem a bit old, leastways the last birth but I have come across ancestors where the woman had children into her early forties.  Your thought that there might be older children as well is also worth looking at again, I did so about three years ago and found nothing but there are more resources on-line now plus some of SFHG's records have been checked and formerly missing entries added.

Hi Jon. I had noted that marriage at Brighton but had discounted it as being 'so far' from Herstmonceux but in light of Carole's comments and your finding a baptism for Mary Tapp at Framfield certainly makes sense of looking into this again.

I'll look for earlier marriages for James and if I find one then look for a death of that wife.

I forgot to mention that I found a burial for James at Herstmonceux on 16 Aug 1865 92 y/o giving a possible birth year of 1773 though his birth year was recorded as c 1776, 1778 and 1781 in the 1841, 51 and 61 censuses respectively so his stated age at death may well have been well out.

I also forgot to mention that Henry's approx. birth year was recorded in the censuses as 1851-bc 1825; 1861-bc 1827; 1871-bc 1825; 1881-bc 1826; 1891-bc 1823; 1901-bc 1823 and 1911-bc 1826 so again all over the place!

[Jo Harding]

There is a somewhat muddled Family Tree on Ancestry which shows a Henry Saunders born Herstmonceux in May 1824. The baptism shown as in Mayfield, Sussex on 13 June 1824.

This has his father as Joseph Robert Saunders, mother Mary Hayward and his wife given as Jane, bc1826.

It might be worth checking out.

Jo

[artifis]

Hi Jo,

The author of the tree fell into the same trap as me, I found Joseph Robert Saunders and family and spent a lot of time researching them only to find when I got Henry's marriage certificate that his father was James which tied in with the 1841 census.  Henry declares over and over again on censuses that he was born at Herstmonceux which ties in with his two brothers James and Thomas whose baptisms I have found.

I'm thinking the Brighton marriage is a good possibility at he moment and I'm looking into that, it could be he was born and baptised there but the family then moved to Herstmonceux when he was a baby and that was the only home he remembered.  I've come across that elsewhere in my ancestry including in the Saunders about 75 years later.

[Jo Harding]

I noticed that Henry's siblings were baptised in the Congregational Chapel in Herstmonceux. I wonder whether the records for this place are complete. There could be gaps, or omissions of baptisms possibly. My experience of non conformist chapels is that their record keeping wasn't very good. In one case, a Wesleyan Methodist Chapel in Somerset never kept records up until I enquired about these in 2015.

I don't know if the Sussex Record Office might have some knowledge on this.

http://www.thekeep.info/

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SSX/Herstmonceux

Jo

[artifis]

That thought crossed my mind too and checking the actual Chapel records is on my to do list to see what they are like and to make sure there hasn't been a transcription omission.  I'll contact the record office to see what they can advise as you suggest.

[artifis]

I'm still pursuing Henry but also his parents, seemingly James and Mary.

At the marriage of a James Saunders to Mary Tapp on 11 June 1821 at St Nicholas Brighton (found by johnw65 above) James is described as a widower.  I have been trying to find a previous marriage for James and the most likely candidate is to a Mary Collins on 10 Oct 1806 at Wartling, James from Herstmonceux and Mary otp.  I then found a burial for a Mary Saunders at Herstmonceux on 20 Aug 1819 aged 37 which seems a good possibility.  I then looked for children for them and found the following baptisms at St Nicholas Brighton for sons of a James and Mary Saunders.

08 Dec 1809  James Henry Saunders with father's occupation South Gloster Militia
09 Mar 1811 John Hartnell Kemp Saunders, no father's occupation.

Does anyone know where I could find out if the South Gloster Militia recruited locally during their tenure at Brighton - Lewes Road?