Author Topic: Vanishing G Grandad  (Read 1757 times)

Offline rainecooper

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Re: Vanishing G Grandad
« Reply #9 on: Monday 11 September 17 14:40 BST (UK) »
UPDATED DETAILS
Frances Ann Raine b8/7/1897 North Biddick, Durham, England
1901 living Coxhoe, Cornforth, Durham.
Mother Mary Ann Raine b1873
Father Edward Raine b1872- d1936
Siblings John Raine b1891
 Emily b1893
Elizabeth b1902
Mary b1907
William Charlton Rainr b1910 d 1988
North Biddick.
William Cooper
Married Frances Ann in 1914 in Houghton-le-spring, Durham.
 
Son William b1/10/1918 d23/6/2006
Son Edward Raine b3/1/1921 d?/10/2004
Both known children born and died in Penshaw, Durham.

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Offline rainecooper

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Re: Vanishing G Grandad
« Reply #10 on: Monday 11 September 17 14:40 BST (UK) »
I will add William's definite details when i get them.

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Offline isobelw

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Re: Vanishing G Grandad
« Reply #11 on: Monday 11 September 17 14:48 BST (UK) »
According to the army record for the William Cooper born in Chester-le-Street his date of birth was 1/4/1898 and there is a note that his birth certificate has been seen. He appears to be the son of William Cooper and Margaret nee Burns and his birth is recorded June quarter of 1898 in Chester le Street. He has a number of siblings born between 1887 and 1903.
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Offline rainecooper

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Re: Vanishing G Grandad
« Reply #12 on: Monday 11 September 17 16:22 BST (UK) »
Thank you isobel
that matches the William i have found. I didn't have his mothers maiden name so thanks for that info. From the census he moves from Chester-le-street to Gateshead between 1901 and 1911. If this is the correct William i know he went on to move to Penshaw as he lived there with Frances Ann after they married until 1924 when he left her. I also have found quite a few siblings and i have his grandparents as William H Cooper b1820 in Newcastlr and Isabella A b1826 in Newcastle also along with 7 possibly 8 children born between 1848 & 1869. Their first child has two records
Mary A Whittaker b1848 &
Mary Ann Cooper b1848. 

Claire

Offline isobelw

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Re: Vanishing G Grandad
« Reply #13 on: Monday 11 September 17 17:31 BST (UK) »
If it is this William Cooper then he quite clearly states on two separate  Attestation records ( 1915 and 1919) that he is unmarried.
Interestingly you have a child born 1/10/1918 and this William was awol for a few days at the beginning of January 1918 and also took off again on 4th Oct 1918, which was three days after this baby was born, (though he was swiftly recaptured and court-martialled).
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Offline isobelw

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Re: Vanishing G Grandad
« Reply #14 on: Monday 11 September 17 18:02 BST (UK) »
I'm fairly sure that the William Cooper who was living in Chester-le- Street in 1901 and Gateshead in 1911 with parents William and Margaret is the same William who was in the Northumberland Fusiliers/Gloucestershire Regiment/Army Service Corp. From his service records his dob ( supposedly confirmed from his birth certificate) is 1/4/1898. This matches with the death record for William Carr in 1973 in Gateshead. William's service records include a small note from his father (also William) which mentions that William jnr has a brother serving in the Durham Light Infantry (D R I). Matthew Cooper ( son of William and Margaret nee Burns born 1887) has service papers online which show he was in the D R I and they also shows his father ( next of kin) living at the same address that is given by William jnr for his father ( next of kin). The other birthdate of 4/4/1898 that you have found  appears to come from William's baptism record ( he was baptised on 8/6/1898 at Chester- le-Street) and it is entirely possible an error was made when this was recorded.
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Offline rainecooper

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Re: Vanishing G Grandad
« Reply #15 on: Monday 11 September 17 19:02 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much Isobell. That all ties in with the information which i found. I hadn't noticed the dates in which he was AWOL but they do seem to confirm that it was around the time of  both the conception and birth of my grandad.
The name change from Cooper to Carr was after ww1 and i have had contact with a family member of William Cooper/Carr who explained that it was to "stay under the searchlight" owing to his desertion.
From his memory William returned to Gateshead and lived a solitary life never marrying or having children. I can only assume that he kept his marriage and children as a closely guarded secret from the very beginning. Never making any mention of them to any family members.
I did search the bmd records of the area and although there are a few William Coopers around the area there was only one born in April 1898 in Chester-le-Street. That difference in what day of the month he was born does make sense as a mistake as i can't find another.
I really really appreciate you time and help so much. Thank you.
Claire x

Online Annette7

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Re: Vanishing G Grandad
« Reply #16 on: Monday 11 September 17 20:22 BST (UK) »
I still feel concerned as to whether the man born 1/4/1898 Chester le Street who died as William Carr is the right person.   You did in fact begin this thread by saying your William was born 2/4/1897 Gateshead.

Did you previously know that when he left his family he became William Carr or has this been concluded from finding the death entry?   I find it difficult to accept that when the Chester le Street man re-enlisted in 1919 (per service record) that he claimed to be single hence my doubts that this is 'your' man (this being some 5 years before yours left his family).   Don't know what others think or whether I'm alone with these thoughts.

Hence the awaited details from the marriage certificate of your man being so important here.

Do you have the birth certificates of any of the children?   If he was in the army then this should show what regiment he was in.

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Offline Jomot

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Re: Vanishing G Grandad
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 12 September 17 01:53 BST (UK) »
Don't know what others think or whether I'm alone with these thoughts.

Hence the awaited details from the marriage certificate of your man being so important here.


No Annette, you're not alone.  The William born in Chester-Le-Street may well be the correct person - particularly as there no birth registration for a William Cooper born Apr 1897 in Gateshead (per the details originally given) - but the OP does need to confirm via the marriage certificate that his father's details match up. 

If he was born Apr 1898 and married in the Apr-Jun qtr of 1914 then he was only just 16 when he married. His enlistment in April 1915 states his age as 18 yrs & 4 months - it is only later that his DoB is recorded as 1 Apr 1898 'certificate produced'.  Perhaps he lied about both his age and marital status in order to enlist?  I see he was only 5ft 2in and under 9st.  I know he wasn't alone in that, but it really hits home that he was little more than a child himself.

His record shows he went missing for 3 days in Jan 1918 and on 13 Feb 1918 was admitted to the 1/3 Northumbrian Field Ambulance as not yet diagnosed (mental), and then onto what looks like Casualty Clearing Station 62, also NYD M[ental].  Returned to duty under escort 21 Mar 1918 and then gunshot wound to leg (?) a little over a week later?

I'm no expert on reading these records so it's worth asking for help on the WW1 board, but as he seems to have gone awol a few times and then later walked out on his family, I wonder if he was actually suffering from what we would now call PTSD?
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