Author Topic: couple of place names in a will  (Read 648 times)

Offline goldie61

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couple of place names in a will
« on: Monday 11 September 17 09:16 BST (UK) »
Can anybody make out these place names please?
In Staffordshire, near Longnor - written ‘Longnowre” in this will.

“(ly) -eing & beyng in Longnowre aforesaid betwee Ranenytthorne (?) & ???  and .... “

“in Sacage (?) & by the tenure of Soage (?)  by the payment of j d by the yere: To have & to hold....”

‘soage’ = souage? - tenure by agricultural services payment of rent

Many thanks
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

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Offline arthurk

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Re: couple of place names in a will
« Reply #1 on: Monday 11 September 17 11:16 BST (UK) »
I'm leaning towards Ravenysthornes and Parkedyche, but I haven't been able to substantiate either of them from maps or other sources online, so I'm far from certain.

The last character of the first word is, I think, the symbol for -es, and the first character of the second word looks rather like the contraction for par- (or per-).

The other word could be socage - I don't know much about land tenure at that time, but I do know that this was something to do with it.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline goldie61

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Re: couple of place names in a will
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 12 September 17 07:40 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your input arthurk.
I'm having trouble tracking them down too.

Thanks for 'socage' - I thought it was something like that! ;)
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline arthurk

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Re: couple of place names in a will
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 12 September 17 11:30 BST (UK) »
I wonder if Ravenysthorne (Ravensthorn) might be the surname of the person who owned the land referred to?

Also, while searching I came across this page http://www.gatehouse-gazetteer.info/English%20sites/4567.html referring to Longnor Hall and park, and a ditch - and then I realised it was Longnor in Shropshire. Is it definitely the Staffordshire one that this will is from?

(There's a bit more on the Shropshire one at Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longnor,_Shropshire)
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline goldie61

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Re: couple of place names in a will
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 13 September 17 03:49 BST (UK) »
Definitely Staffordshire arthur. Near Alstonefield.
Thanks for taking an interest.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline bbart

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Re: couple of place names in a will
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 13 September 17 19:40 BST (UK) »
Hi Goldie
I've been pouring over old maps and very old newspapers searching the area in question to no avail.
On the bottom line of your image, it looks like a name, George something. Do you know what the name would be? And the year of the will itself?  It might help in the search of old newspapers, as they often have articles on auctions when wills are being executed.

Offline goldie61

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Re: couple of place names in a will
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 13 September 17 22:03 BST (UK) »
Hi bbart.
Thanks for looking for these places.
It is the will of a William Rogers - the George mentioned is his son.
Good idea about the newspapers - but it is from 1544, so not an option I think! :)

I may have to consider they have either the place names have changed out of all recognition, or they no longer exist at all.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline bbart

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Re: couple of place names in a will
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 14 September 17 03:29 BST (UK) »
I think you may be right about these names being places that don't exist anymore.  I turned Google upside down and shook the stuffing out of it, but with all the old history from the right time period that it showed, nothing remotely close to the words in the will.  If only we could actually read the words with any confidence!!

Good luck with it; maybe one day the answer will show up out of nowhere!

Offline goldie61

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Re: couple of place names in a will
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 14 September 17 07:56 BST (UK) »
Thanks for trying bbart and spending time looking for these places.  :)
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs