Author Topic: Joseph ELLIS in Wrexham ... needle in a haystack?  (Read 1191 times)

Offline hilarykellis

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Joseph ELLIS in Wrexham ... needle in a haystack?
« on: Tuesday 12 September 17 17:10 BST (UK) »
Hello,

I am now after 10 years returning to my paternal line, the Ellises, and remembering why I put it off for so long.

In 1845, Thomas Ellis, servant, son of Joseph Ellis, labourer, marries Sarah Edwards, servant, daur of William Edwards, labourer, by Banns, in Wrexham Parish Church, both made an X, and witnesses were John Ellis and Harriet Edwards.

I was able to find a potential baptism for Thomas to Joseph Ellis, a labourer, and Elizabeth in Esclusham Above on 30 Dec 1821. Thomas and his wife lived in Esclusham Above much of his life so this adds up.

It looks like Joseph and Elizabeth also had Mary (1816) and Ann (1819) in Esclusham Above.

I found a marriage for a Joseph Ellis, labourer of this parish, and Elizabeth Ellis, spinster, by Banns in 1812 in Wrexham on FindMyPast, but I am not positive this is the right couple. It does seem to fit the best. Mary Ellis and William Owens witnessed the union.

I am trying to find Joseph in the census to no avail - I am guessing he'd be born 1785-95 but I know the 1841 Wrexham census is missing. As you know, Ellis is an extremely common name in Wales and even in England so I feel hopeless to find and confirm information on Joseph and his wife Elizabeth Ellis! And of course both of them are Ellises!

Any advice?

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Offline despair

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Re: Joseph ELLIS in Wrexham ... needle in a haystack?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 12 September 17 23:52 BST (UK) »
Did you get the information that Joseph was a labourer from the marriage certificate of Thomas in 1845 and,if so,is it a reasonable assumption Joseph was not given as deceased?
Again,if so, the GRO death records for Wrexham only have two reasonable candidates for a subsequent death-the first aged 73 in 1864 and the second aged 70 in 1866.
There are possible consistent records for the irst of these as follows:-

If Thomas and Sarah are the couple at Llewenenion in 1851,ref.HO107/2503/705/4,then is there not a reasonable chance Thomas' mother is the Elizabeth(given born 1784) next door with sons John(witness at Thomas wedding?) and William.Her husband appears to be the Joseph,gardener(not inconsistent with labourer?) at Llanerchengog(?)(Llanerchrugog) Hall in 1851,ref HO107/2503/329/38,because they are both together in the 1861 at RG09/4283/3/26 where both are given as born Marchwiel,albeit Elizabeth is "dittoed".
There is a death notice for this Joseph here:-

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4579026/4579034/52/

I think Elizabeth probably died in 1862.

Not definitive,but worth considering.

Regards
Roger



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Offline Annette7

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Re: Joseph ELLIS in Wrexham ... needle in a haystack?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 13 September 17 00:20 BST (UK) »
I'm with you, despair.   Although this Joseph shown as gardener in 1851/1861 on the baptism of son John Elles on 24/8/1823 Wrexham (of Esclusham above) Joseph is shown as Labourer.

He may well initially have worked as an all round labourer on the estate and only became specifically a gardener in later years.

Annette

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Offline despair

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Re: Joseph ELLIS in Wrexham ... needle in a haystack?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 13 September 17 10:07 BST (UK) »
The transcription for the Joseph Ellis(gardener) in 1851 did not give a place of birth.However the original appears to say Pentre Ifan(?) Ruabon.

Regards
Roger

Offline Gadget

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Re: Joseph ELLIS in Wrexham ... needle in a haystack?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 13 September 17 10:52 BST (UK) »
Could it be Pentre Bychan, Roger?

Just had a look at the image and it looks like Issa*

* long s
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Offline Gadget

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Offline despair

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Re: Joseph ELLIS in Wrexham ... needle in a haystack?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 13 September 17 13:28 BST (UK) »
Yes,thankyou,Gadget,it looks like Issa(f) with a long "s".Still cant find a relevant baptism,non-con,adult or otherwise for Joseph,circa 1790/1791(calculated from death notice).

Regards
Roger

Offline Gadget

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Re: Joseph ELLIS in Wrexham ... needle in a haystack?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 13 September 17 13:35 BST (UK) »

Which non-c records did you check? I've got the Blackwell records for Denbighshire.

Gadget
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Joseph ELLIS in Wrexham ... needle in a haystack?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 13 September 17 15:02 BST (UK) »

St Marys, Ruabon - baptisms

7 March 1787 Joseph Ellis, son of Gifford and Jane Ellis of Dynhinlle  Issa (buried 15 April 1787, of Hafod) 
10 October 1790 Joseph Ellis, son of Gifford and Jane Ellis of Dynhinlle  Issa

I can't remember which part of the Ruabon parish the Dynhinlle/Dinhinlles (Issa and Ucha) are. I have a Clwyd FHS map somewhere.  I think it's the central part or towards Penycae. Will check.


Gadget

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