Author Topic: Cleary's in Oldcastle Upper, near Windgap, 1850s.  (Read 975 times)

Offline annclare

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Re: Cleary's in Oldcastle Upper, near Windgap, 1850s.
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 17 October 17 18:37 BST (UK) »
May be of interst

James Cleary   Date of Birth:   
        Date of Baptism:   04-Nov-1832
Address:   Upper Oldcastle   Parish/District:   WINDGAP
Gender:   Male   County   Co. Kilkenny
Denomination:   Roman Catholic
Father:   Patrick Cleary   Mother:   Ellen Pendergast
Occupation:         
Sponsor 1 /Patrick Cana
Sponsor 2 /   Mary Poor
Notes:

Mary Cleary   Date of Birth:   
        Date of Baptism:   06-Mar-1829
Address:   Oldcastle   Parish/District:   WINDGAP
Gender:   Female   County   Co. Kilkenny
Denomination:   Roman Catholic
Father:   Patrick Cleary   Mother:   Ellen Penderghast
Occupation:         
Sponsor 1 /   Michael Cleary
Sponsor 2 /   Bridget Hearn
Notes:

John Cleary   Date of Birth:   
        Date of Baptism:   02-Jan-1831
Address:   Turkstown   Parish/District:   WINDGAP
Gender:   Male   County   Co. Kilkenny
Denomination:   Roman Catholic
Father:   Patrick Cleary   Mother:   Ellen Prenderghast
Occupation:         
Sponsor 1 /   Philip Hearn

Catherine Cleary   Date of Birth:   
        Date of Baptism:   29-Apr-1838
Address:   Turkstown   Parish/District:   WINDGAP
Gender:   Female   County   Co. Kilkenny
Denomination:   Roman Catholic
Father:   Patrick Cleary   Mother:   Ellen Penderghast
Occupation:         
Sponsor 1 /   Patrick Penderghast
Sponsor 2 /Mary Neil
You possibly have this already
James   Cleary   Date of Death:   01-Dec-1900   
Age:   80   Parish / District:   KILMOGANNY
Address:   Oldcastle Upper   County:   Co. Kilkenny
Status:   Bachelor (Previously unmarried)   Denomination:   Civil Parish / District
Occupation:   FARMER   Sex:   Male
Graveyard   Informant
Graveyard:      Relationship:   Householder
Parish:      Name:   John MacKey
County:      Address:   Oldcastle Upper

Kerrisk, Healy, McGuire, Duggan - Kerry and US
Tuohy/Toohey,Gorman, Purcell, Fanning- Holycross Tipperary

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Offline Gerryk

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Re: Cleary's in Oldcastle Upper, near Windgap, 1850s.
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 17 October 17 18:51 BST (UK) »
Thank you again for that information. May I ask where it comes from? I have found it hard to get baptismal registers for that whole area.
There seems to have been several Cleary families in the whole area of Windgap, through Oldcastle, Meallaghmore, and other townlands, and they do not seem to be related.

My gg grandfather, Andrew Cleary, originated in that area, but may have had a serious row with his family. We can find no trace of relatives, siblings or parents. He ended up in Carrick on Suir from 1830 until his death in 1891.

His son, Thomas, was given the farm at Oldcastle which was being managed by James Cleary, presumably after his father Patrick died. We have no idea why.


So all of this information is building up a picture, slowly. Thanks again.
Gerry
Kane, Cleary, Kennedy, Flynn,

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Offline annclare

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Re: Cleary's in Oldcastle Upper, near Windgap, 1850s.
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 17 October 17 20:22 BST (UK) »
The baptisms are from Rootsireland a subscription site. But you will be able to see the entries in the microfilmed parish records at https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1034

I am curious - James died in 1900 but the 1901 and 1911 Census do not show any Cleary surname in Oldcastle Upper When did Thomas move to the farm and do you know who farmed there in the intervening period. Also suggest it would be worthwhile looking at the cancelled valuation books(also called Revision Books) for Oldcastle Upper from the time of Griffiths to the time Thomas started farming there. These books are registers of landholders who were responsible for paying the agricultural rates and while the dates are not precise as the books were not updated every year they can show who replaced the previous landholder. They are not online but are available to view in the Valuation office Irish Life Centre Dublin http://timeline.ie/finding-your-irish-roots/the-valuation-office/
Regards
annclare
Just looked for the marriage of Patrick Cleary and Ellen Penderville/Prenderville and found this
19-Feb-1828       
Parish / District:   WINDGAP      County:   Co. Kilkenny
Husband      Wife
Name:   Patrick   Cleary      Ellen   Prendergast
Address:   Kildrummy      Not Recorded
Denomination:   Roman Catholic      Roman Catholic
Witness 1      Witness 2
Name:   Edmund   Hayes      Anne   Kehoe
         
Kerrisk, Healy, McGuire, Duggan - Kerry and US
Tuohy/Toohey,Gorman, Purcell, Fanning- Holycross Tipperary

Offline Sinann

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Re: Cleary's in Oldcastle Upper, near Windgap, 1850s.
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 18 October 17 00:06 BST (UK) »
Thomas is on the house and building return 1901 as Landholder
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000917489/

Offline Gerryk

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Re: Cleary's in Oldcastle Upper, near Windgap, 1850s.
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 18 October 17 10:27 BST (UK) »
Thanks AnnClare.

THomas Cleary never actually lived there. His father, andrew, who was a landlord in Carrick on Suir, left a detailed note book of his financial dealings.

In piecing together the puzzle (including putative relationships) it seems that, from at least 1870, Andrew Cleary was paying the rent for the Oldcastle farm. The first entry I can find is to M R Weld Esq, Coolaghmore, Callan.
I wonder was that arrangement resulting from the death of Patrick Cleary. I am not at all sure what the connection is. They could have been brothers.
Patrick's son, James, was a bachelor on his death in 1900.
In the interim, while the rent was being paid by Andrew Cleary in Carrick, James was caretaker of the farm. He was being paid by Andrew to manage the farm.
When James died, Andrew's son Thomas, who was now running the business, wrote in the diary, "James Cleary died Dec 1st 1900. He left me farm etc.. I sold his farm March 4th 1901 to Matthew Walsh, Glenaskange for 190."

So Thomas Cleary never actually lived there.

Gerry


Kane, Cleary, Kennedy, Flynn,