Author Topic: what happened to Arthur Harold KELLS?  (Read 1100 times)

Offline sparrett

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Re: what happened to Arthur Harold KELLS?
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 16 September 17 04:25 BST (UK) »
Maddy,
The person at 115 Lilli Pilli Point Rd was not Frederick Joseph EMPSON.

1963 Electoral Roll
115 Lilli Pilli Point Rd, Caringbah
EMPSON, Frederick Charles, Dentist
EMPSON, Pamela May. HD

ADDING QUERY

What exactly is the name written on the death certificate?

Sue

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Online maddys52

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Re: what happened to Arthur Harold KELLS?
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 16 September 17 05:23 BST (UK) »
Hi Sue,
Yes, I know Fred J EMPSON did not live there, as I mentioned in reply #11, the informant was "Fred J EMPSON, no relation, 70 Gilbert St, Dover Heights".  ;)

When I first got the death certificate I tried to find out a bit about the informant and the address where this Arthur was living in Lilli Pilli, but can't seem to locate the notes I made at the time, but I did think the house was owned by Fred J's son, so maybe that electoral roll is where I got that idea.

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Offline sparrett

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Re: what happened to Arthur Harold KELLS?
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 16 September 17 06:16 BST (UK) »


There is a NSW death certificate for an Arthur KELLS in 1963 which I have, but apart from being the same name and age, there is nothing on it which proves this is my Arthur. Except that the informant was Fred Empsom who was apparently a well known Sydney bookmaker and the Arthur who died was caretaker at a house in Lilli Pilli NSW. Was there a connection? I'm not sure. There is also an electoral roll for 1963 with an Arthur KELLS at this address.



Your opening post includes the paragraph above.
So, to clarify,
The informant was Fred EMPSOM. Actually Frederick J EMPSON?

A son (so you think) of this man, whose name was Frederick Charles EMPSON lived at the house in 1963.

You have reason to think he owned the house. (As opposed to being a tennant of the house)

Under the column for Occupation of the deceased on the cetificate, does it say Arthur was the caretaker of the property 115 Lilli Pilli Point Rd.?

OR does it simply say  occupation, Caretaker?

As mentioned, the electoral roll says, no occ.

Sue
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Online maddys52

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Re: what happened to Arthur Harold KELLS?
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 16 September 17 06:33 BST (UK) »
Hi Sue, I'm sorry if I've made this confusing. I'll attach the death certificate.


Offline sparrett

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Re: what happened to Arthur Harold KELLS?
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 16 September 17 06:44 BST (UK) »
The image has indeed clarified things.

 as you say,it is made out in the name Arthur KELLS.
The Cemetery record and death notice is  Arthur Henry KELLS
The electoral Roll for the address is Arthur Harold KELLS.

The Electoral roll information will have been provided by the man himself.  The other entries above were "guesswork" on the behalf of others.

He is the only one of the name Arthur Harold KELLS on the electoral roll and drops off the roll after the recorded death of Arthur Henry KELLS .

Nothing in all this is able to conclusively say you have the right man, but there is a strong likliehood.

Sue

 
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Re: what happened to Arthur Harold KELLS?
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 17 September 17 22:49 BST (UK) »
Thanks Sue, yes I think you're probably right.

I'm wondering if Arthur Harold KELLS appears on any electoral rolls between 1935 and 1963? I have both of these, but nothing in between? I've contacted the NSW and QLD State Libraries, but am still waiting for a reply from them. Of course, he could be anywhere.

Offline sparrett

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Re: what happened to Arthur Harold KELLS?
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 17 September 17 23:05 BST (UK) »
According to my access to the rolls, the name does not appear again until 1963

If this is the correct woman Grace KELLS still calls herself wife in October 1945.
Daily Mercury, McKay

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/170634808

Sue
 
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Re: what happened to Arthur Harold KELLS?
« Reply #25 on: Monday 18 September 17 12:42 BST (UK) »
Thanks again Sue,

Yes, that is my grandmother. She stayed in Mackay but moved to Sydney in 1949 with my mother, then back to Mackay in 1967 after my Uncle's death. I guess what happened to Arthur in the intervening years (assuming it is him who died at Lilli Pill) is one of those things that will always remain a mystery.

thanks again to everyone for your contributions.  :)

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Re: what happened to Arthur Harold KELLS?
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 01 November 17 10:27 GMT (UK) »
Thank you once again to everyone who was interested in this thread. Just in case you're still interested ... in thinking about it more I did a little more research about the son of the informant on the death cert and discovered someone of the same name and occupation still alive in the Sydney White Pages. (I've asked a moderator to remove his name from the thread in accordance with rootschat policy  ;)).

I wrote to him, and he replied with some lovely memories and some more details about Arthur Harold KELLS who indeed was caretaker for Fred J EMPSON's house at Lilli Pilli Point Rd from at least 1958. He even sent me a couple of photographs of Arthur - my Mother and I were completely overwhelmed and so grateful!

So whilst I don't know where he was from the late 30s till the late 50s, I now do know what happened to my grandfather.  :)