How did the LAWLESS family get to NZ in 1884 from Liverpool.

[hettyhen]

Have tried to find this families Immigration details but have had no luck and would appreciate some help. Sometime between 1884 & 1888. Living in Wellington.
LAWLESS Thomas & Catherine c1840, both born Ireland. Children Catherine Elizabeth c1868, Helena/Lena c1877, John Francis c1878, Thomas c1883, all born Liverpool England.
On death cert Thomas Snr 1914 in NZ 30 years =1884. Thomas Jnr Military record 1922 entry, in NZ 35 years=1887. Catherine Snr obituary says she arrived 1884. Thomas appears to have become a Prison Guard in May 1885 and was committed to Porirua Mental hospital in Dec 1885 where he died in 1914. His death cert has occupation Prison Warder
There is another LAWLESS family of Thomas & Catherine living in Thames/Te Aroha area with children on NZBDM born from 1876 but not the same family.
Thanks
HeatherR.

[minniehaha]

Daughter Helena/Lena.

Marriage:

1908/3604   Elena   Lawless   Alexander   Simpson

Death:

1968/42266   Simpson   Elena    91Y

As she lived to a great age there may be an obituary for her....

Added:Cemetery details & headstone photograph:

https://wellington.govt.nz/services/community-and-culture/cemeteries/cemeteries-search/details?id=66114&serviceType=Burial&previousPage=%2fservices%2fcommunity-and-culture%2fcemeteries%2fcemeteries-search%2fresults%3fserviceType%3dAll%26firstNames%3delena%26lastName%3dsimpson%26fromDate%3d01%252f01%252f1840%26toDate%3d15%252f09%252f2017%26cemetery%3dAll



Minniehaha.

[minniehaha]

Not part of the brief and you may already have this?

Death of John Francis in West Africa...

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19191022.2.5?query=catherine%20lawless


Minniehaha.

[Billyblue]

They could have come via Australia

Have you checked passenger lists (if available) from across the ditch?

Dawn M

[minniehaha]

Hi Heather,

Have you tried climbing up a branch of the family tree in order to make contact with descendants? Someone in the family may have knowledge handed down through the generations as to the name of the ship.

Marriage:

1889/3527   Catherine Elizabeth   Lawless   William Samuel   Ridlen

Death:

1950/31993   Ridler   Catherine Elizabeth   82Y

Cemetery details with headstone photograph:

https://wellington.govt.nz/services/community-and-culture/cemeteries/cemeteries-search/details?id=66113&serviceType=Burial&previousPage=%2fservices%2fcommunity-and-culture%2fcemeteries%2fcemeteries-search%2fresults%3fserviceType%3dAll%26lastName%3dridler%26fromDate%3d01%252f01%252f1840%26toDate%3d16%252f09%252f2017%26cemetery%3dAll

Obituary of William Samuel Ridler:

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19380718.2.133?query=william%20samuel%20ridler


Minniehaha.

[hettyhen]

Thank you for your replies,
Minniehaha, My auntie, born 1912 died 2010, was the contact with the family and she gradually lost track of the grandchildren of Thomas & Catherine, (children of William & Catherine RIDLER) as they all got older.
There is a Probate for John Francis LAWLESS, all 53 pages of it!, very interesting, some in French but translated as well, on Archives New Zealand, Probate Records, that come up on familysearch but can't seem to get the right link to post here.
Dawn M have tried but have had no success as yet, but will try again. Maybe even came via America so will have to visit the library to get more records.
Thanks
HeatherR

[minniehaha]

Hi Heather......

Part quote:

"There is a Probate for John Francis LAWLESS, all 53 pages of it!, very interesting, some in French but translated as well, on Archives New Zealand, Probate Records, that come up on familysearch but can't seem to get the right link to post here."

Here is that link.....

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G92R-CV1J?i=95&cc=1865481



Minniehaha.

[Lucy2]

Hi Heather

I think the following is probably the LAWLESS family you seek ?   [... oops LAWLESS by surname, that is .    ]

http://www.huttcity.govt.nz/Leisure--Culture/Museums-and-galleries/Our-museums/petone-settlers-data/DisplayPerson/?Id=156641&SearchString=l

This family arrived at Wellington on 20 November 1884 aboard the NZ Shipping Co's vessel, ss "Ruapehu" (departed Plymouth, England on 27 September.) 
Although they are shown as "LAWLESS - Mr and Mrs E. and family" ... it seems likely the "E" is an error.

Unfortunately, there is no further information at the Petone Settler's database - for the LAWLESS family (nor for others known to have been on that same voyage.)  [Possibly the information held by Petone, has come from a newspaper article ? ]

Whether there is a passenger / or immigration list available for this September-November journey which might give additional information, is as yet unknown.  *  [Further info in explanation, in a following post. ]

Passengers for Wellington (per s.s. "Ruapehu" ) :

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18841111.2.4

  ... 3rd Cabin .. Mr and Mrs E. LAWLESS and family

   ~  Lu
                                                                     see following >

[Lucy2]

"RUAPEHU" (Ship) to Wellington - Year 1884

Archives New Zealand (Wellington office) have the following by way of passenger lists for 1884 :

https://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=4085918

However ... the New Zealand Shipping Company's vessel "Ruapehu" actually made three voyages to NZ in the year 1884.    Firstly arriving in March ... next, in mid-July at Wellington ... and lastly, departing from Plymouth, UK, 27 September for Hobart, Port Chalmers, Lyttelton and  finally arriving 20 November 1884 in Wellington.

Now, whether Archives NZ at Wellington have a passenger list for the September-November voyage is unknown (and yet to be explored).   [There are secondary Archives NZ passenger list references for the two earlier voyages of the "Ruapehu" 1884.    And given all the work done years ago in sourcing passenger records (before we had access to the images now provided at FamilySearch), I would have expected to be able to find something further for "Ruapehu" (Sept-Nov)  ... and I haven't.  ]

So, really not sure if a look-up at Archives NZ (Wellington) is worthwhile ??

   ~   Lu
                                                                                        see next >>