Author Topic: A few words about the vicar in a will  (Read 993 times)

Offline goldie61

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A few words about the vicar in a will
« on: Saturday 16 September 17 04:19 BST (UK) »
What is the piece in this will saying about ‘George Shewre”?   
Had to post it in two bits, as the parchment is very wide, and it’s at the end of one line and the beginning of the next.
Starting second line down in the first extract.

According to the list of vicars in Longnor church, ‘George Shaw’ was vicar at this time (1544). I guess if you say Shaw with a rural accent, it would be ‘Shewre’!
Evidently “Sir’ was a form of address for all men of higher status, and was used to address vicars, so I think this must be “Sir’ here.
What’s the word with the dots around it though? Possibly ‘vicar’? It seeme to end in ‘re’.   But has it been crossed through?
Is that ‘p’ contraction ‘pst’ - ‘priest’?
So perhaps originally ‘vicar’ was written, and then crossed out, and priest written instead?
So does it say
“These Beyng witness Sir George Shewre ??  priest of Longnoure”

I could be barking up completely the wrong tree though!

And the second bit continues on about George Shewre -
‘& my ? ?’
Not even going to write what it look like to me!
Thanks.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline horselydown86

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Re: A few words about the vicar in a will
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 16 September 17 06:55 BST (UK) »
Second image is:  ...& my gostly fadre

Still thinking about the first image.

Offline Wiggy

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Re: A few words about the vicar in a will
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 16 September 17 06:56 BST (UK) »
Suspect you are going to need a bigger snip to decipher this one so decipherers can get a feel  for the writing.    ;)

Wiggy

edit - ooops - crossed with you HD.
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline horselydown86

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Re: A few words about the vicar in a will
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 16 September 17 07:04 BST (UK) »
I think the word surrounded by dots is shewre, written with a lower case s and the long-r. It's crossed out, in my opinion.

Agree that it is p(re)st = priest.  It's the same contraction as commonly seen in p(re)sence.

I have been working on many C16th documents recently.  Sir seems to be the common descriptor or address for clergymen.

ADDED:

What did the second bit look like to you?

ADDED 2:

It's hard to be sure with the dark crease crossing the word, but I think it is:

These Beyng witn(e)ses...

with the long-s and the -es symbol together


Offline goldie61

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Re: A few words about the vicar in a will
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 16 September 17 09:48 BST (UK) »
Many thanks HD for your input.
Originally I had thought is was 'gostly fadre' which didn't seem to make any sense at all!
Saying it out loud now, are you thinking 'fadre' is 'father'? and 'gostly' as in the Holy Ghost?, so  'Ghostly father'. I can see how a priest could be a father, and as an interceder for the Holy Ghost.
Is that the line of thinking?

I can see your thinking that the crossed out work might also be 'Shewre' - although the writer uses a different 'r' as the next to last letter - he uses both forms of 'r' throughout so could well be. So he just wrote 'Shewre' twice, and then crossed one out!

Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline arthurk

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Re: A few words about the vicar in a will
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 16 September 17 11:21 BST (UK) »
Originally I had thought is was 'gostly fadre' which didn't seem to make any sense at all!
Saying it out loud now, are you thinking 'fadre' is 'father'? and 'gostly' as in the Holy Ghost?, so  'Ghostly father'. I can see how a priest could be a father, and as an interceder for the Holy Ghost.
Is that the line of thinking?

According to the Oxford English Dictionary (my local library membership gives me full online access), "ghostly father" is another term for "father confessor", and it quotes an example from 1539 with the spelling gostly fader.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline horselydown86

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Re: A few words about the vicar in a will
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 16 September 17 15:57 BST (UK) »
Saying it out loud now, are you thinking 'fadre' is 'father'? and 'gostly' as in the Holy Ghost?, so  'Ghostly father'.

Exactly, in the sense as Arthur has outlined.  The testator is saying that Sir George Shewre is his own priest, confessor and spiritual adviser.

Offline goldie61

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Re: A few words about the vicar in a will
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 16 September 17 22:34 BST (UK) »
Ah! thank you arthurk and HD.
That's fantastic.
Another interesting little gem from Tudor times.  :)
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline horselydown86

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Re: A few words about the vicar in a will
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 17 September 17 16:55 BST (UK) »
If you are interested, the term is used several times in Romeo and Juliet, referring to Friar Laurence:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kqq/