Author Topic: Looking for Margaret Thomas from Coventry  (Read 747 times)

Offline chris_49

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Re: Looking for Margaret Thomas from Coventry
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 19 September 17 11:40 BST (UK) »
I should point out that there is another Leonard Thomas born 1910 Coventry, but he is Leonard George registered June quarter and the marriage to Edith Cecilia was of a plain George. I found that a Leonard G married Catherine Glass in 1937 and a certain register 2 years later tends to confirm this. Other Leonards born in Warks around then mostly have middle names bar the 1914 one surely too young to marry in 1930.

No luck with finding an Elizabeth Hodges born around 1882 in Worcs except a servant 20 in Birmingham 1901 which tells us nothing. I can't connect her to the Harriet Hodges who wed a different Wm Thomas, but I only found her in 1871 and at her wedding in 1894 where her father is given Joseph, then as married on censuses. Connection is birthplace given as Clifton on Teme. 

Finding William Thomas born Worcester 1873-ish is as you'd expect hopeless - none exact, lots approximate
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs
Hancox - Warks
Green - Warks
Draper - Warks
Lynes - Warks
Hudson - Warks
Morris - Denbs Mont Salop
Davies - Cheshire, North Wales
Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire
Owens - Cheshire/North Wales
Hicks - Cornwall
Lloyd and Jones (Mont)
Rhys/Rees (Mont)

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Offline chris_49

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Re: Looking for Margaret Thomas from Coventry
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 19 September 17 11:40 BST (UK) »
sorry duplicated
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs
Hancox - Warks
Green - Warks
Draper - Warks
Lynes - Warks
Hudson - Warks
Morris - Denbs Mont Salop
Davies - Cheshire, North Wales
Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire
Owens - Cheshire/North Wales
Hicks - Cornwall
Lloyd and Jones (Mont)
Rhys/Rees (Mont)

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Offline Gloria Mann (Nee Blackford)

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Re: Looking for Margaret Thomas from Coventry
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 19 September 17 18:53 BST (UK) »
Chris, from talking to a relative the Leonard Thomas you mentioned indeed worked in the car manufacturing and is the correct one. as far as I know there was a Len, Burt (not sure if Burt spelt correctly), Jack, Margaret and a Nancy who all lived in Coventry.  So the name Thomas has to be correct. 

BumbleB as far as my research has taken me I believe the Blackford line goes as follows:
John Blackford & Margaret Thomas - his father and mother were James 1859 and Frances Hall 1881 (she was considerably younger).
As you say James Blackford was married to Mary Ann Blackford  and as you say she died 5th March 1902 at 48 which makes sense marrying then Frances.
The 3rd wife possiblity I'm still trying to get my head round that .

I know we have 2 sets of Blackfords in that area and I know we have to meet up with a common relative somewhere but still digging on that.

You guys are helping tremendously with your input and things are coming together. Many thanks



Offline chris_49

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Re: Looking for Margaret Thomas from Coventry
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 19 September 17 19:58 BST (UK) »
You're welcome, Gloria.

Still looking for Elizabeth Hodges. In case anyone's thinking she's Elizabeth Hester (or Esther) Hodges, baptised St Martin's Worcester 1882, that one seems to have married William Alfred Cale at the same church in 1903 (same father with forenames reversed), they are on the next census as Cale and she seems born Tewkesbury per 1901 - so two Worcs-born Elizabeths that year, the other one found nowhere else at all.
 
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs
Hancox - Warks
Green - Warks
Draper - Warks
Lynes - Warks
Hudson - Warks
Morris - Denbs Mont Salop
Davies - Cheshire, North Wales
Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire
Owens - Cheshire/North Wales
Hicks - Cornwall
Lloyd and Jones (Mont)
Rhys/Rees (Mont)

Offline chris_49

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Re: Looking for Margaret Thomas from Coventry
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 20 September 17 19:34 BST (UK) »
I can't find Burt or Bert anywhere - it doesn't help that it can be short for Albert, Herbert etc. He must have been born after 1911.

But I think Nancy started life as Annie b 1916. I found that she was married twice, first as Nancy to a man called William J Clarke in 1941, they had 3 sons, and then again as Annie in 1950 to a man I'd better not name as he was 10 years her junior and may still be alive, but his first name was Thomas if that helps - they had a daughter.
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs
Hancox - Warks
Green - Warks
Draper - Warks
Lynes - Warks
Hudson - Warks
Morris - Denbs Mont Salop
Davies - Cheshire, North Wales
Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire
Owens - Cheshire/North Wales
Hicks - Cornwall
Lloyd and Jones (Mont)
Rhys/Rees (Mont)

Offline Gloria Mann (Nee Blackford)

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Re: Looking for Margaret Thomas from Coventry
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 20 September 17 20:54 BST (UK) »
You are amazing Chris,
I know we have a Nancy (Margaret's sister and therefore I presume a Thomas, who was indeed married to a Tom (probably Thomas and they had two daughters, a Sue and a Kath (I believe Kathleen). I believe he was some years her junior, he indeed looked it as I did meet them when I was a young girl.  Nancy did have a son (Not Tom's) living with them by the name of Tony so it is quite likely she had others. Is it permissible on here to tell me where I might find their records?  I probably should read over the rules again.

So far then:  Nancy is Annie 1916, Jack 1918,  Leonard Thomas (born 7 Aug in either 1908 or 1910 - it varies between records) who married Edith Cecilia Emily Clarke (born 12 Sep 1911) in Coventry in Mar qtr 1930 - I'm pretty sure this is Leonard but not Burt.  Another possible sibling mentioned on here is Mary 1915 but I have no inkling re a Mary on my Grandmother (Margaret Thomas' side).

Just to note I applied to get a marriage certificate but stupidly put the wrong marriage year and don't know if they will find it.  Have you had any dealings doing this and do I need to apply again or will they search?  I imagine I need to do it again  :(

Again, thank you so much, I have become totally obsessed with searching my ancestors now and you have definitely helped tremendously.  I keep wondering whether to join Ancestry which may help more but so far things are going pretty well for free.

 Bert or Burt (I always believed to be a Thomas) is a conundrum as I don't have much on him.  I know he went to live in London and worked most of his adult life at Heathrow airport  and he had a daughter 

Offline chris_49

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Re: Looking for Margaret Thomas from Coventry
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 21 September 17 09:34 BST (UK) »
No worries, Gloria

I don't know what happens when you make a mistake on a GRO cert request because I've never made one (touches wood!) but hopefully someone here will know. They charge a lot more if they have to do a search, but if you've got the name, district volume and page right it may be OK.

I found the Thomas family on the 1939 register which is available on FindMyPast but the only children there were Annie and Jack - the others were older and would have left home, two known to have married and found, but significantly no Bert. Annie was given two future married names, first Clarke and then that of the gentleman who may still be alive.

Then it was a case of trying to find those marriages on FreeBMD, especially as they were known to be local to Warwickshire and possibly Coventry, and then the children of those marriages using both surnames and leaving the birth blank.

I made too many assumptions when saying there were three sons of William Clarke and Nancy (Annie) Thomas because the surnames are too common, even if you limit the search to Coventry. However, the first birth matches the person you mention. I see now that the other two are rather close to Nancy's 2nd marriage so probably to another couple. It shows that you shouldn't get too carried away.

We're quite strict about not naming living people so I don't name Annie's 2nd husband, especially now as you've named his daughters (I think it's a fair assumption that William Clarke is dead). What's significant is that the marriage in 1950 in Coventry is for both Annie Clarke and Annie Thomas marrying the same man - of course the same person under both her names - but her children all have the mother's maiden name Thomas. I found the two you mention plus Jane 1958  who sadly died as a baby.

I think you'll need either Ancestry or FindMyPast soon enough unless they're available at your local  library. Look out for free weekends, one month trials and special offers - Rootschat members usually post updates when these happen.

There are too many marriages for Jack Thomas and Mary Thomas so you'll have to ask relatives again. I'm pursuing a hunch on Bert, I'll post if I find anything.

 
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs
Hancox - Warks
Green - Warks
Draper - Warks
Lynes - Warks
Hudson - Warks
Morris - Denbs Mont Salop
Davies - Cheshire, North Wales
Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire
Owens - Cheshire/North Wales
Hicks - Cornwall
Lloyd and Jones (Mont)
Rhys/Rees (Mont)

Offline Gloria Mann (Nee Blackford)

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Re: Looking for Margaret Thomas from Coventry
« Reply #34 on: Friday 22 September 17 08:22 BST (UK) »
Bless you Chris,
You have been a tremendous help and have really helped in guiding me on the right course and also helped dispell incorrect findings. I imagine a lot of families are as confusing as ours but it doesn't help with my Grandmother (Margaret) fibbing about her age or the fact that people used other than their first names at times or carried a nickname.  I think I will go ahead and order another marriage certificate for my grandmother and put the correct date this time, that seems to be the best way to find out for sure doesn't it.  I'm not sure what personal information you can put on here but I am actually living in the States so try to converse periodically with the few relatives that are left there who are quite elderly and rather forgetful but with the help you have given me, I am determined to solve the mystery of did she or did she not marry at 14 and lie about her age. 

I will be checking here as often as possible but am about to become a grandmother myself for the third time at any hour (I have 2 of them with me tonight as we had a false emergency this evening and I think a birth is imminent). I hope one day that they will enjoy the gift I am trying to leave them of who and where their family came from.   

Offline chris_49

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Re: Looking for Margaret Thomas from Coventry
« Reply #35 on: Friday 22 September 17 15:42 BST (UK) »
I admit to no luck with Bert. My thought was that he might be a son of one of the older siblings, but Edwin John Thomas seems to have died 1912 Coventry aged 7, and no luck with William Thomas. Could he have been adopted? I suppose he's definitely not a Blackford.

There is another candidate for Elizabeth Hodges who may or may not have married William Thomas. That's Eliza Bosworth Hodges born 1880 Worcester, mother's maiden name Anthony (quite rare). I found that William Inkerman Hodges married Eliza Anthony early 1880 Worcester and following other Hodges-Anthony births gives William Frederick 1882 Worcester, Rachel 1884 Aston, John 1887 Birmingham where indeed they are (Laurence St) in 1891 - the wife is by then Sophia but Eliza Hodges 39 died there in 1888 and William Inkerman wed Sophia Williams (also b Worcester) 1890 Birmingham and she must be the mother of Albert Inkermann Hodges b 1891 Birmingham MMN Williams. In 1891 she is Eliza O Hodges and I can't make that to be a B any way I look at it - nothing like the enumerator's other Bs - but perhaps an error as all other children are correct. Significantly, she is not with the family in 1901 (all the other are) so she could well be that servant I mentioned.

All of the above proves little unless a marriage of Eliza Hodges and William Thomas can be found - so far nothing. Eliza Bosworth Hodges does however disappear off the face of the earth - no marriage or death found - so she may have dropped her middle name.
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs
Hancox - Warks
Green - Warks
Draper - Warks
Lynes - Warks
Hudson - Warks
Morris - Denbs Mont Salop
Davies - Cheshire, North Wales
Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire
Owens - Cheshire/North Wales
Hicks - Cornwall
Lloyd and Jones (Mont)
Rhys/Rees (Mont)