Clara Frances LANGFORD born abt 1828 Middlesex or London

[Mark Smith Australia]

Greetings to all,
I am trying to find out where my 3xGt-grandmother, Clara Frances Langford, was born and just exactly who her parents were.   The earliest actual record that I have found is her marriage to George Quarry on 4 Mar 1848 at St Andrew, Holborn, Middlesex (England Marriages 1538 - 1973, and London Marriage Banns). This lists her father as Henry Langford.
Between 1849 and 1867, through the various parish and census records on familysearch.org and ancestry.com I have found the births of seven children.  In the 1851 and 1861 census Clara is listed as born in St. James, Middlesex.   In 1870 -71 with all living children they emigrated to Melbourne, Australia - all neatly captured in available shipping records.   Clara Frances died in Melbourne in 1915.   From all records that I have sighted she was born about 1828.   On the index for her death her parents are listed as Joseph Langford and Mary Carlyle.   This is where it gets quite messy and confusing!
I recently found that Clara was executrix of her mother's will in 1875. Her mother died in Melbourne as Mary Seales on 20 Jan 1875. Mary's death certificate was very hard to read, but she married Joseph Seall in Tasmania (no record of the event found as yet) around 1853. Prior to that she married a Thomas Carlisle in London (17 Dec 1835, St James, Westminster, Middlesex).   For both these marriages there was "no issue". Mary's father was listed as Robert Langphere and mother unknown and she was born in Cork, Ireland, around 1810 (this is a best guess, with the place name unreadable).
Back to Clara Francis - I can see that her father as listed on her death was an amalgam of her step-father Joseph and what appears to be her birth surname of Langford, and her mother's name as listed being her surname from her first marriage.
I have had no luck trying to find a birth or baptism for Clara Frances, nor any Langford family with a Clara and Henry.   I suspect that Mary was unmarried when Clara was born and the Henry mentioned in the marriage certificate may have been an uncle or grandfather.
I have also had no luck in finding when Mary came out to Australia but Joseph Seall was sent out for life in 1834 - that is another story
Hoping that someone can point me in the right direction or to other records not available on the major websites.
Looking forward to any responses,
Mark
Canberra, Australia

[ShaunJ]

From all records that I have sighted she was born about 1828

On her marriage to George Quarry (4 March 1848) the register shows that she was of full age. If that was true, she must have been born on or before 4 March 1827.

[ShaunJ]

Did you see that in a sworn affidavit in the 1876 probate papers of Joseph Seall, Clara declared that she was a child of the deceased?

[Mark Smith Australia]

Thanks ShaunJ,
A good point about "full age", but her age as stated in the 1851 and 1861 census, passenger lists and death certificate give a bit of a variation around 1828.   I have used a +- 5 years on all my searches.
Another good point on the probate papers! I don't know enough about wills etc and whether there would be a difference between a child and a step-child. Joseph Seall's will was written in 1858 and doesn't mention any children.   Clara's mother was the executrix of his will but never acted on it, it being left for Clara to finalise in 1876 after her mother's death in 1875.   According to Joseph Seall's convict records he was married to a Margret at Mary-le-bone at the time of his trial. He appears to have been born in Chelsea, so I guess there is always the possibility that he had a "dalliance" with Mary that resulted in Clara.   Have yet to see anything supporting his marriage to Margaret.
It is all a bit of a mystery!
Mark

[ShaunJ]

The banns book of St Martin-In-The-Fields records that banns were read for Joseph Seall and Margaret Stone in March 1834.

[Mark Smith Australia]

I don't know what I am doing wrong but I couldn't find the entry on Familysearch or Ancestry.com.   I found what I thought were the Banns for St Martin-in the-Fields for March 1834 (on Ancestry.com) and read through it but didn't find it.
If it is not too much trouble could you explain how you found it or send me the link?
Mark

[ShaunJ]

That banns record is viewable on FindMyPast

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fwsmtn%2f005109325%2f00447&parentid=gbprs%2fwsmtn%2fbanns%2f0077726%2f1

[Mark Smith Australia]

Thanks ShaunJ,
Took out a free trial to have a look.   It appears that they actually didn't marry as I assume that the first column gives the date of marriage after the reading of the banns.   He was arrested on 15th April for theft.   This is backed up by the Old Baily trial repot - a portion follows with Margaret Stone as a witness:-

MARGARET STONE . I live at No. 2, Greek-street. I was in Mr. Webber's service as servant of all-work - I had left on Friday before this transaction - I have known Seall seven years - Mrs. Wimpley, the wet nurse, was acquainted with Seall - I am not married to Seall - his character was upright and just in every thing - he is a shoemaker - he came to me backwards and forwards to No. 71, Oxford-street, which is a jeweller and silversmith's - he visited me there for seven months.
MR. CRESWELL. Q. What name do you go by? A. Margaret Stone - I am not married to Seall - I borrowed a shawl of one of the servants to go to be married to him, but I was not married - we were too late for church - that was on the Sunday before, this happened on the Tuesday - I did not go another day to be married - I received a letter on Monday evening from his sister Emma, and it was on the Wednesday evening following that he went to the theatre - I know the handwriting of the letter - I received it on the Monday evening - I asked the prisoner to go to the nurse and ask her if she could go to the play on the Wednesday evening, with me and a friend or two more.

Thanks for all your assistance it is much appreciated,
Kind regards,
Mark

[wivenhoe]

You need to see this death record -

BDM VIC death
1871 / 4490 SEALS  Joseph parents UKN / UKN    spouse Mary CARLYLE

Wife Mary is very likely the informant. Married or not, where Mary gives details about Joseph's domestic history, she will be indicating her own association with Joseph....time, location etc.