Author Topic: John Doran, drowned in the Liffey, 15th November 1884.  (Read 1280 times)

Offline Joney

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John Doran, drowned in the Liffey, 15th November 1884.
« on: Thursday 21 September 17 15:53 BST (UK) »
This John Doran is my cousin's great grandfather - or at least I think he is. He was born in Liverpool in 1861 and is missing from the 1881 census in Liverpool, though I have found the family. Presumably he is away. On his son's marriage certificate in 1902, he is described as a deceased Merchant Seaman, which would explain this.

My suspicion is that he is the man who is in the 'Deaths at Sea' which I found on FindMyPast, recorded as age 23, nationality 'Liverpool'  ;D , apparently crew on a ship called 'Clarendon', who fell into the river when attempting to get back on board. A quick look at the British Newspaper Archives site at the library, brought up some very short reports of the inquest. The gist of this was that he was under the influence of drink, evidence given by a young woman whose name was not given. This death fits in with a family story that my cousin's great-grandfather was buried at Glasnevin.

I would like to prove this is my man. I have first obtained the burial details from the Glasnevin website. The date of the death corresponds with the 'Death at Sea' and repeats the info that he was 'Accidentally drowned in the River Liffey', adding the detail, 'at Edin Quay', but records his occupation and marital status as unknown. (He had left a wife and son in Liverpool if I'm correct.) His last address is given as the 'Steam Ship 'Lily', not the 'Clarendon'. The burial record includes an 'Informant', Eliza Flynn, 13 Bass Place, Dublin. Is this the young woman with whom he had been drinking ? Who is she ?

So where do I go from here ? Get a death certificate, which may be equally inconclusive ? Go back to the newspapers in case I missed something ? Try to trace records for the 'Clarendon' and crew lists  ? (Recorded as 72241, registered in Dublin, but I can't find anything in the crew lists on the NLI website.) Any suggestions, please ?

Liverpool - Ireland 
 Skerries, County Dublin - Thorn(ton),  Wicklow -  Traynor
Baltray, Co. Louth, McGuirk and  Co. Mayo -  Phillips
Isle of Man - Harrison -  Andreas and Morrison - Maughold, 
Durham, Hetton and East Rainton area  - Brown and Kennedy
Northumberland - Clough, Longbenton

Offline dathai

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Re: John Doran, drowned in the Liffey, 15th November 1884.
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 21 September 17 16:11 BST (UK) »

Offline Joney

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Re: John Doran, drowned in the Liffey, 15th November 1884.
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 21 September 17 16:27 BST (UK) »
Thanks, dathai. There seem to be more than enough Flynns appearing in the church registers to show they lived there quite a while. Oh, for an Irish census before 1901 !
Liverpool - Ireland 
 Skerries, County Dublin - Thorn(ton),  Wicklow -  Traynor
Baltray, Co. Louth, McGuirk and  Co. Mayo -  Phillips
Isle of Man - Harrison -  Andreas and Morrison - Maughold, 
Durham, Hetton and East Rainton area  - Brown and Kennedy
Northumberland - Clough, Longbenton

Offline dathai

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Re: John Doran, drowned in the Liffey, 15th November 1884.
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 21 September 17 16:41 BST (UK) »
Eliza Flynn was probably Elizabeth Lenehan wife of William Flynn she appears to have died in 1886 and is buried in Glasnevin from 13 Bass Place age 38
William Flynn was a dairyman from his childrens births
Lizzie Rourke is probably his second wife who he married in 1887
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/South_Dock/Brunswick_Street_Great/1348983/


Offline dathai

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Offline Joney

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Re: John Doran, drowned in the Liffey, 15th November 1884.
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 21 September 17 17:00 BST (UK) »
OK, so if she's the Eliza Flynn, she's about 36 to his 23 and may have taken pity on a young man who was less than steady on his feet and could have been responsible for steering him back towards the ship he needed to get back to. That would explain why she was with him a few minutes before he fell in, as mentioned in the papers. That would make sense.  Then she's the witness at the inquest out of a sense of public responsibility.  I wonder..... I'm impressed, dathai. This partial information is so maddening.
Liverpool - Ireland 
 Skerries, County Dublin - Thorn(ton),  Wicklow -  Traynor
Baltray, Co. Louth, McGuirk and  Co. Mayo -  Phillips
Isle of Man - Harrison -  Andreas and Morrison - Maughold, 
Durham, Hetton and East Rainton area  - Brown and Kennedy
Northumberland - Clough, Longbenton

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: John Doran, drowned in the Liffey, 15th November 1884.
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 21 September 17 17:35 BST (UK) »
Quote
apparently crew on a ship called 'Clarendon', who fell into the river when attempting to get back on board.

To be more accurate, the Register records that his ship was the Claremont (not Clarendon) and that he "fell from the quay into river", not that he was trying to get back on board..  The newspaper reports say that he was going on board the Lily at Eden Quay when he fell. 
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline hanes teulu

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Re: John Doran, drowned in the Liffey, 15th November 1884.
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 21 September 17 17:43 BST (UK) »
Just clarifying John Doran's ship re. "Deaths at Sea" (died 15 Nov 1884) on FindMypast. Isn't it the Claremont rather than the Clarendon?

Dublin Daily Express, 14 Nov 1884
Shipping Intelligence - Dublin Nov 13
"Entered Inwards Coastwise - ...; Claremont, Liverpool; ..."
 

Offline Joney

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Re: John Doran, drowned in the Liffey, 15th November 1884.
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 21 September 17 18:28 BST (UK) »
Yes, sorry.  I had corrected that in one lot of notes on the laptop, but not the other, my working paper version. Thank you for that. I couldn't see any mention of the ship's name in the newspaper report I looked at, but it was very short. Could you tell me which newspaper you found it in, please, ShaunJ ?
Liverpool - Ireland 
 Skerries, County Dublin - Thorn(ton),  Wicklow -  Traynor
Baltray, Co. Louth, McGuirk and  Co. Mayo -  Phillips
Isle of Man - Harrison -  Andreas and Morrison - Maughold, 
Durham, Hetton and East Rainton area  - Brown and Kennedy
Northumberland - Clough, Longbenton