Author Topic: Where is Ann from?  (Read 925 times)

Offline DCB

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Re: Where is Ann from?
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 25 July 18 15:41 BST (UK) »
Elizabeth Gubbins was buried in Manton in on 25th December 1783.

It was written as Elizabeth Clement, which was crossed out, and then Gubbins.

James was buried on 27th September 1772.

David

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Offline iluleah

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Re: Where is Ann from?
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 25 July 18 16:08 BST (UK) »
Thank you DCB.
You have the right family who moved from Lincolnshire to Rutland and thanks to the record of the Lincolnshire Settlement Certificate at Swinstead Lincs to Manton matched with all the dates/names I had researched up to then, it is always difficult ( as you say) to find enough real records and cross reference to prove people at that time in history ...........and I am sure we all like to 'make information fit' it certainly 'fits' much better the more real records I can find.

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I noticed that a William Gubbins was buried in Manton in 1803, born 1743.
He married Mary Lodge on 18th May 1767 and one of the witnesses was James Gubbins.

Not proof however highly likely the witness was the James Gubbins who was father to William

Thank you for your latest post, I am not sure who Elizabeth Clements parents were or where she fits in as her daughter Ann married William Clements and as Manton is a small place 'potentially' they could be 'from' the same Clements family in Manton so maybe a cousin marriage between Wm Clements and Ann Gubbins, I just don't know which means more research and finding more real records which "JAC100" has transcribed directly from the PRs and hopefully will find the time to send me
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

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Offline DCB

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Re: Where is Ann from?
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 25 July 18 17:16 BST (UK) »
There was a William Clement, son of Henry and Jane, possibly Laxon, baptised in Manton on 12th February 1725.

They also had a daughter, Elizabeth, in 1816 but she would be too young to be the wife of James.

Another Elizabeth, daughter of George and Ann, was born on 5th August and baptised on 1st September 1700. She would just fit for the last baptism in 1743.

A Henry Clements, son of George and Ann, was baptised in Manton on 6th October 1688. He was probably Elizabeth's brother, which could make William her nephew, and cousin of Ann Gubbins.

I can't find a marriage for George and Ann.

David

Offline iluleah

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Re: Where is Ann from?
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 25 July 18 17:38 BST (UK) »
Yes that William Clement was born/bap in Manton 1725, Henry Clement married Jane Lackson ( Laxton) in Preston in 1714 ( no idea where Jane was born/baptised)

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They also had a daughter, Elizabeth, in 1816 but she would be too young to be the wife of James
do you mean 1716?
I have 5 children baptisms for Henry and Jane but no Elizabeth

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A Henry Clements, son of George and Ann, was baptised in Manton on 6th October 1688. He was probably Elizabeth's brother, which could make William her nephew, and cousin of Ann Gubbins.

As you say A Henry Clements, I have that in my notes but don't know  if it is 'my' Henry( nor knew about his potential sibling Elizabeth). It 'seems' likely and yes it would make Wm/Ann first cousins
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline JAC100

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Re: Where is Ann from?
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 25 July 18 18:30 BST (UK) »
I have checked the Manton baptisms for a William Gubbins around the 1743 period - but there are no records of any Gubins around that time.

The James Gubbins at the wedding of William and Mary Lodge, could have been the the James who married Elizabeth Clement b 1698, but more likely his son!

Mary Lodge was baptised 3rd April 1748 to Henry and Elizabeth, but there is no record of their marriage in Manton.

Hope this helps? John

Offline JAC100

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Re: Where is Ann from?
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 25 July 18 18:45 BST (UK) »
Hi Team

The Clements go back in Manton as far as Robert who died 17.09.1611.

His son William was b Feb 1599 and married an Elizabeth Heath

Their son Rowland was b 1633 and married a Mary?

Their son George b May 1661 married an Anne?

Their children were:

Henry b Oct 1688, Rowland b Mar 1689, George b June 1693 and Elizabeth b 3rd August 1700 who was married to James Gubbins (5th November 1729)

I believe it was this Henry who married a Jane? whose son William b Feb 1725 married Anne Gubbins 14th Jan 1762.

Hope this helps, John

Offline iluleah

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Re: Where is Ann from?
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 25 July 18 18:57 BST (UK) »
Thank you JAC100 for looking and getting back. As said before that time frame is very difficult to prove 'connections' as there are very few records to cross reference

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I have checked the Manton baptisms for a William Gubbins around the 1743 period - but there are no records of any Gubins around that time.

William was baptised 4 April 1743 in Swinstead, Lincolnshire. The Lincolnshire Settlement Certificate ( Swinstead Lincs to Manton) is dated 1729, so there has to be something ( like other family) drawing them back there to have their children baptised

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The James Gubbins at the wedding of William and Mary Lodge, could have been the the James who married Elizabeth Clement b 1698, but more likely his son!

Did James have a son called James?


Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline iluleah

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Re: Where is Ann from?
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 25 July 18 19:22 BST (UK) »
Hi Team

The Clements go back in Manton as far as Robert who died 17.09.1611.

His son William was b Feb 1599 and married an Elizabeth Heath

Their son Rowland was b 1633 and married a Mary?

Their son George b May 1661 married an Anne?

All above is new info so thank you I will use it as a framework to research
Quote

Their children were:

Henry b Oct 1688,  I have 6 Oct 1688 Rowland b Mar 1689 I have 18 Mar 1689 and buried 17 Jun 1702, George b June 1693 I have 10 Jun 1693 and Elizabeth b 3rd August 1700 I have born 5 Aug  1700/ bap 1 Sept 1700 who was married to James Gubbins (5th November 1729)  I have 5 Nov 1728 but an unsure it is 28yr old Elizabeth

I believe it was this Henry who married a Jane? whose son William b Feb 1725 married Anne Gubbins 14th Jan 1762.

Henry Clement m Jane Lackson in Preston 1714 and Wm is their 4th child who m Ann Gubbins in Manton 1762...so yes I agree with that one

Hope this helps, John
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline DCB

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Re: Where is Ann from?
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 26 July 18 10:47 BST (UK) »
May not be relevant but:

I was wondering what the link with Gubbins might be to Swinstead and found an inventory of a James Gubbins in Creeton, Counthorpe, just over a mile away, in 1669.

I can't find a marriage for the parents (James and Jane?) of James of Manton but there is a baptism of a James Gubbins, son of James, in Castle Bytham, 3.5 miles from Creeton and 15 from Manton, in 1665. His abode was given as Counthorpe

James senior was buried in Castle Bytham in 1668.

For the inventory see - https://www.lincstothepast.com/Inventory---Gubbins--James--1669--------/1105341.record?pt=S

James's baptism top left - https://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=728201&iid=119320

James's burial middle right - https://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=728201&iid=119328

David