lookup request for james muir in RE survey coy

[squatt]

hello

I know there are some real army experts on here and as hoping you can help.

looking for grandfather who we think may have been part of the DLI royal engineers Survey Coy 1917-18

Is name was James william muir (may have just used james muir)

The closest i have came up with is a medal card

for a james muir 184080 which provides no detail
part of a court marital record where he was present which had at the top  RE 23 Field Co

My GF was born in county durham  dec 1891

Any suggestions

regards

[MaxD]

Let's refine the basic info first.

The DLI (Durham Light Infantry) and the RE (Royal Engineers) are two totally different units.  While not impossible, he is unlikely to have served in both, he was either in the one or the other. May I ask what you have that gives both regiments?

The 23 Field Coy must refer to 23 Field Company RE.  No Field Survey Company was numbered 23  Again these are different types of units within the RE.  How did survey come into your info?.

There are a number of medal cards for RE soldiers with James W or James but, as you've seen with the one you looked at, these have no identifying details.  Given that some 70% or so of WW1 service documents were destroyed by bombing in WW2, it is likely that his did not survive.

Are you able to post a copy of the document relating to the court martial or provide any more info about it, it may hold a clue (date/places/other names etc).

MaxD

[squatt]

i got the DLI from the use of the tittle

"The Durham Light Infantry in 1914-1918 - The Long, Long Trail"

When I accessed a website which had info on the Field Survey Units

I bow down to your superior knowledge in this area the site "http://www.1914-1918.net/re_survey.htm" which was probably a little misleading in its redirect.

the court martial document was only partial and my relative was not the subject but only there when it happened so isnt mentioned in any detail. but the 1st image as 23rd field Co at the top right

I got this from findmypast

My sister found from an electoral roll of voters away from home that he was

"WW1 in 1918 and 1919 he was away from home with the  Field Survey Co Re"



Last name   Muir
Service number   184080
Regiment   Royal Engineers
Unit / Battalion   23rd Field Company
Originating Record   WO 363. 177254 Sidney Vincent Lavers, Royal Engineers
Series   WO 363
Series description   Wo 363 - First World War Service Records 'Burnt Documents'

[squatt]

big update..

I just reviewed the record my sister found it actually had his regiment number on (probably did not mean any to her)

He was in the royal engineers rank driver - I since found out today that driver then meant "Horses" which makes a lot of sense as him and his brothers worked farms.

His reg no was 141460

[MaxD]

Tidy up:

Ignore the DLI (fine regiment though it is).  As you've now seen, the fact that a man came from Durham doesn't necessarily mean he was in the DLI.

As you've also seen, the court martial is of a 2nd/Corporal Major (his name not rank!) in 1917.  The document is the witness statement of Pte Lavers of 23 Field Company RE who gave the names of two other witnesses including a 184080 Sapper Muir.  This is not your man from the absent votes lists (good find!).  You can ignore this also.  Incidentally, that record has a second page which relates to someone called Laverty of the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers and is of a court martial in 1914 and putting it with the other court martial is simply a c**k up.

Your man is indeed 141460 Driver James W Muir for whom only the medal card remains.  As you have seen from the Long Long Trail page on the Field Survey Companies, there were eight of them (they became battalions in 1918) and we don't know to which one he belonged.  His medal card tells us he had the British War and Victory medals indicating he served overseas after the end of 1915 so probably a 1916 conscript.  As a Driver he would have had horses to pull the wagons with the survey kit and perhaps later motor vehicles of some sort, he would not have been doing any of the technical survey tasks.  There is a Youtube video on the work of the RE surveyors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAVDs2uUtIY

Is there perhaps any correspondence with a number in front of Field Survey to tell us which company he served with?

MaxD

[squatt]

Hi MD

thanks for the posts all very helpful, unfortunately My Grandad died before i was born, the family also moved a lot with various children splintering off as they did so.

As far as i know there is no surviving personnel effects at all relating to him, we did not even have a photograph!

A follow up question, i was looking at the medal card (do you have access?) for him that i downloaded off ancestry and it has various annotations in the remarks section, I would post an image but unsure how, the insert image button just puts tome html tags in.

Do you know what any of these annotations mean?

regards

[jim1]

There you go. These a just location refs. to where they appear on the Medal Rolls.
Quite right, wrong number.
apart from the medal roll info. on the right is a return voucher number meaning his medals were sent back for alterations.

[jonw65]

I think that one may have been eliminated

He was in the royal engineers rank driver - I since found out today that driver then meant "Horses" which makes a lot of sense as him and his brothers worked farms.

His reg no was 141460

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01krx/

[squatt]

Hi jim

thanks that is great, we assume then if it is sent back for alterations that he must then have received them (no idea where they have ended up)

So it is defonately for alterations at not because he was found? (he moved around a lot!)

regards