Author Topic: Ordnance Survey Staff in Ireland  (Read 445 times)

Offline xpress4

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Ordnance Survey Staff in Ireland
« on: Saturday 23 September 17 15:15 BST (UK) »
I know this is a long shot but still hopeful!

My ancestor began working for the Ordnance Survey in Ireland in around 1837 and eventually ended up in England. His retirement is listed in Parliamentary Papers after 41 years of service.

The National Archives have staff papers (although I think they are limited). However, doing research from the U.S. without funds to hire a genealogist, I don't have access to them.

Is anyone aware of an online source, free or subscription, that might provide more information on his employment/work history/retirement detail?

Thank you!
MOORE, LAW, SANDFORD, DELANEY

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Offline Sinann

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Re: Ordnance Survey Staff in Ireland
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 23 September 17 16:18 BST (UK) »
The National Archives in England have the staff papers or the National Archives in Ireland?
Ordnance Survey was carried out by the military so it's likely all papers pre 1922 relating to it were sent to England, you could I guess ask the OSI if anything was left in Ireland.
https://www.osi.ie/about/history/

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Offline xpress4

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Re: Ordnance Survey Staff in Ireland
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 23 September 17 16:35 BST (UK) »
Hi Sinann,

The National Archives in England have the staff papers.

The survey also had a civilian staff. When they were in Ireland in the early part of the 19th c., they enlisted the help of civilians. One of my ancestors from Tyrone began with them and ended in England. The other from Queens County did as well, although he worked with them in Scotland after Ireland and then eventually England. Their children followed in their footsteps in England as well.

What's cool is i believe these two men, both 3x great grandfathers might have become friends along their careers because #1's son, who joined the OS in England, was living #2's family in 1871 in England as a lodger.  The following year #1's son married #2's daughter.

Both of the men are listed as civil servants for the OS; one as a surveyor, and one as office messenger.

Life would be much easier if they were on the military side of it!  :)

I tried OSI but they don't have any historical staff records unfortunately.


Thanks,
Brenda
MOORE, LAW, SANDFORD, DELANEY

Offline Sinann

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Re: Ordnance Survey Staff in Ireland
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 23 September 17 17:40 BST (UK) »
So it looks like any surviving papers won't be found in Ireland.
Military or Civil Servant both would be official British Government papers so sent to England.

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Ordnance Survey Staff in Ireland
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 26 September 17 14:56 BST (UK) »
I know this is a long shot but still hopeful!

My ancestor began working for the Ordnance Survey in Ireland in around 1837 and eventually ended up in England. His retirement is listed in Parliamentary Papers after 41 years of service.

The National Archives have staff papers (although I think they are limited). However, doing research from the U.S. without funds to hire a genealogist, I don't have access to them.

Is anyone aware of an online source, free or subscription, that might provide more information on his employment/work history/retirement detail?

Thank you!

Hello xpress4

I am interested in the Ordnance Survey in England who were mapping the countries, basically to be used by the War Office.

If you had to march soldiers from A to B, you wanted to keep them as fresh as possible and march them on the flat, so avoiding hills, valleys and hedged fields and knowing your Roads, flat lands, bridges, water courses and rivers to avoid, the main Inns and Hostelries for resting your soldiers and giving them refreshment (many pubs were issued with the beer allowances), what the War Office would reimburse Public Houses and Inns for each pint of beer or ale issued to Soldiers. Safer than water, due to it being mashed at temperature.

Some early maps only show features, roads, houses in red, water courses and relief (even though it is known from Manor Surveys those places had fields), which is a pity for old field researchers, but the up and down relief was likely enough to tell the Army Officer in charge to avoid it.

You have probably already gathered that is why the Department was called ORDNANCE Survey and originally based in the Tower of London, because they were mapping for the Army.

What is the name of your Surveyor? I managed to get hold of, an out of print book, several items and a number of early Maps.

I feel we'll be struggling to find the messenger in a book, but you never know. But hopeful, with a Surveyor?

The Ordnance Survey lost some of its collection at its Southampton HQ due to the bombing in the WW 2 blitz.

The surviving collection, or that deposited before the blitz is mainly at TNA, Kew, with some items at the British Library, Euston, London, but always check they have the items on site AND YOU CAN PROVE YOUR PHOTO IDENTITY AND ADDRESS/ES OFFICIALLY IN BOTH YOUR HOME COUNTRY AND ALSO WHERE YOU ARE TEMPORARILY STAYING IF VISITING!

I recall a Dutch chap going Ape, he had his Passport, but couldn't prove one of his addresses, so they refused him a Readers Pass.

Sadly and disgracefully, the British Library, like other great institutions, have had collections damaged or pieces stolen, or cut out.

So bonafide researchers are very happy to see a strict stance on identity, to preserve an unreplaceable item.

You are not supposed to even run your finger over the document or item when reading it and I can't understand for the life of me, why Archives are allowing TV companies to film people, doing just that! When paper slips are available!

Mark
George HOOD of Selby Before 1812 - Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

Offline xpress4

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Re: Ordnance Survey Staff in Ireland
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 26 September 17 21:12 BST (UK) »
Hello Mark,

Thank you so much for sharing that wonderful information. Since starting on this genealogy path and learning of the generations in my family who worked with the survey, I've become fascinated with the history of it all.

I don't know if or when I will ever be able to come to England for research so the lovely, generous people on this site are invaluable to me.

My surveyor was James Sandford and my messenger was Denis Moore.

My fingers are crossed!

Again, many thanks!
Brenda
MOORE, LAW, SANDFORD, DELANEY

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Ordnance Survey Staff in Ireland
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 27 September 17 10:00 BST (UK) »
Hello Brenda

None appear in the Indexes of the two books:-

The Early Years of the Ordnance Survey by Col Sir Charles Close New introduction by Dr J B Harley 1969
[Originally first appeared as a series of articles in the Royal Engineers Journal and was subsequently published in book form by the Institution of Royal Engineers in 1926

164 pages, includes quite some page references to the Irish Survey.

In 1969 J. B. Harley was in the Department of Geography, The University, Liverpool 7 (7 is not a full current postcode). I don't know where his research was deposited or whether that would help you.

But Dr Harley went to work for David & Charles (according to the link) Publishers who reprinted a series of old 1" First Edition OS Maps and the D & C Map reprints have some interesting information about the Survey of that particular map, or area.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brian_Harley


I suspect that the 2" to 1 mile OSD (Ordnance Survey Drawings) in the British Library only have the Lead Surveyor's signature on. However, the Surveyors worked in Teams or small groups.


Map Of A Nation A Biography of the Ordnance Survey
by Rachel Hewitt 2010 (9.99 2010)
There is a wealthy notes index pages 311 to 416 giving sources and works cited. Followed by picture credits / index to pages 417 to 435.

This Rachel Hewitt has been all over the place (page 414) including the Bodleian Library, Oxford.

In her Abbreviations (but this is just a small part of where she went to trace stuff)
British Library
The National Archives [TNA, Kew, Richmond, Surrey]
The National Archives of Scotland
The National Library of Ireland
Paris Observatory
Royal Archives
Royal Society
The State Papers [these to which Rachel is referring are likely at our TNA, Kew]
Trinity College Dublin

Try a name search on Portcullis (UK Parliamentary Archives Catalogue) 
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/parliamentary-archives/

http://www.portcullis.parliament.uk/calmview/


http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/ordnance-survey/

All the best with your hunt.

Kind regards Mark
George HOOD of Selby Before 1812 - Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

Offline wyndham

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Re: Ordnance Survey Staff in Ireland
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 27 September 17 20:09 BST (UK) »
In addition the following book "A Paper Landscape"  The Ordnance Survey in Nineteenth-Century Ireland by J H Andrews may be of some help.  Second edition published by Four Courts Press in 2002.  The first edition by Oxford University Press in 1975.

Offline xpress4

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Re: Ordnance Survey Staff in Ireland
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 28 September 17 05:49 BST (UK) »
Mark this is just wonderful! Where to start, where to start...

Thank you so very much for taking the time to search and share this. I never thought of checking the sources; so obvious as it were!

Again, my thanks for your kindness!

Brenda
MOORE, LAW, SANDFORD, DELANEY