Author Topic: Lutze & Hobbs  (Read 691 times)

Offline AndrewC

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Lutze & Hobbs
« on: Sunday 24 September 17 17:30 BST (UK) »
Good afternoon.

I'm looking for some help please to trace my paternal great grandmother.

My paternal grandmother Wilhelmina Martha Lucy Clarke (nee Hobbs) was born on the 11th August 1902. She always maintained that she never had a birth certificate. My initial searches seemed to prove this theory to be correct. A few years ago with the help of some kind people on RootsChat, I was able to locate a potential birth certificate for my grandmother. It didn't match the information I already held for but seemed to indicate that she may have been born out of wedlock to a lady by the name of Ida Emilie Lutze. Despite many hours spent searching to try & verify this information & in addition trying to find more information on Ida Emilie Lutze my searches have drawn a blank.

The Hobbs side of the equation comes into being from details provided by my elderly father plus a copy of my grandmother's marriage certificate.

I have wondered whether or not my grandmother was adopted by the Hobbs family but I think I am right in saying that formal adoption records weren't kept until the 1920's.

Thank you in anticipation & I'm sorry the post is so long.

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Offline rosie99

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Re: Lutze & Hobbs
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 24 September 17 17:35 BST (UK) »
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline AndrewC

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Re: Lutze & Hobbs
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 24 September 17 17:40 BST (UK) »
Yes it is.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Lutze & Hobbs
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 24 September 17 17:43 BST (UK) »
I have not read through the post - What information does the 1911 census give for Wilhelmina and did you get the birth certificate for Wilhelmine Martha LUTZE
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Offline AndrewC

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Re: Lutze & Hobbs
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 24 September 17 17:51 BST (UK) »
I have the birth certificate for Wihelmine Martha Lutze (I tried scanning it as an attachment but it was too big). The 1911 census has her living with William & Esther Hobbs.

The birth certificate states that she was born 40 Lorraine Road, Islington. Also present at the birth was an A Rosenberg.

Online Kay99

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Re: Lutze & Hobbs
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 24 September 17 18:06 BST (UK) »
This is probably a red herring but just in case I notice in 1901 an Edia Lyrz b 1869 and listed as Swiss was  working as a domestic servant in Kensington  :-\  Which you already have - apologies

Kay

Offline rosie99

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Re: Lutze & Hobbs
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 24 September 17 18:07 BST (UK) »
From your other post
The date of birth is given as 11/08/1902 which was my grandmothers, it gives her forname as Wilhelmina Martha (note the different spelling) but this spelling is the same as my grandmothers. The parents were Ida Lutze & A.Rosenberg.
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Offline AndrewC

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Re: Lutze & Hobbs
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 24 September 17 18:36 BST (UK) »
rosie99 - My post from a few years ago was slightly incorrect, as I initially read it wrong. There is no father stated on the birth certificate. A Rosenberg's name comes under the heading 'Signature, description & resident of informant' on the certificate.

Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Lutze & Hobbs
« Reply #8 on: Monday 25 September 17 09:56 BST (UK) »
The adoption process was made subject to a legal framework involving the courts from 1927 .... adoptions before that may have left no paper trail at all.

I have seen legal agreements from earlier adoptions drawn up by solicitors  between the families agreeing the terms of adoption but if they existed at all they would kept within the family themselves, so you won't find them elsewhere.

The "present at the birth" is the qualification that allowed that person to be the informant who registered the birth. They may have been a  relative or a friend (or occasionally the father) but from the certificate there would be no way of knowing.