James GUNSON - complete

[Clare Fowler]

Hi there,

Does anyone out there have any connection to James GUNSON or his family in Dumfriesshire?  I don't have much information on him, except he married an Agnes JOHNSTON in around 1849 in Dumfries.  He was a Merchant Seaman, and he must have died between 1856 and 1874, from what I can determine.  I can't find his death on scotlandspeople, so am assuming that he was either out of the country or at sea when he died.  They had at least 2 children born in Glasgow around 1857/1858, so I can only assume that he was working from the docks there around this time.

I am descended from Agnes and her second husband, but would like to pin down James' death to clarify the situation with the second marriage.

Can anyone help or does anyone have any ideas?

Cheers,
Clare

[AMBLY]

Hi Clare

This looks affy like James GUNSON alive & kicking  in Census 1881 Lancashire, with a new wife!? His extimated YOB is 1823.

Dwelling:   61 Windsor St; Census Place:Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England
Source:   Census 1881 FHL Film 1341870     PRO Ref RG11    Piece 3635    Folio 122    Page 15
                    Rel:        Marr  Age   Sex    Birthplace                                 Occupation
James GUNSON   Head      M      58    M    Dumfries, Scotland,                      Mariner
Margaret GUNSON   Wife       M      58    F     Dumfries, Scotland
Margaret A. SHIPLEY Neice   W       33    F     Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John B. SHIPLEY    Nephew           4    M    Liverpool, Lancashire, England
William W. SHIPLEY   Nephew           3    M    Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary A. HALLET   Boarder  U      21    F     Liverpool, Lancashire, England   Dressmaker
Alexandrina HALLET   Boarder U          16    F     Stornaway, Scotland,                  Waitress (Inn)


Off FREE BMD, this looks like it may be his death, despite age being a bit out.
Deaths Sep Qtr 1895 Lancashire
Gunson  James  age 69  District:Toxteth Park /  Vol:8b /  Page:134

Interestingly there is another, younger James GUNSON, also a Mariner born Dumfries, in same Census (for Everton, Lancashire) and  also married to a Margaret! :-

Dwelling:   79 Friar St ; Census Place:   Everton, Lancashire, England
Census 1881, Source: FHL Film 1341879     PRO Ref RG11    Piece 3671    Folio 111    Page 17
                             Rel:       Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace  Occupation
James GUNSON                 Head     M   26    M   Dumfries, Mariner
Margaret GUNSON            Wife      M   26    F   Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Margaret Murry GUNSON   Daur    2    F   Liverpool, Lancashire, England
James GUNSON             Son     3 m   M   Liverpool, Lancashire, England


This could be marriage of one of the James'  to their Margaret: (I suspect the younger, but who knows!)
Marriages Sep Qtr 1876, Lancashire
GUNSON  James    West Derby  8b 520a   
Nixon  Maggie     West Derby  8b 520a   


Cheers
Anne

[AMBLY]

Hi again Clare

You mentioned James GUNSON & Agnes JOHNSTON has at least 2 chd in Glasgow (off IGI: Tradeston, Glasgow :- Janet 1856 & Sarah 1858)

Did you also see this curious one? IGI indexes Robert's surname as "CHAMBERS

ROBERT JOHNSTONE CHAMBERS 
  Birth:  14 JAN 1872   Central District, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Parents:
  Father:  JAMES GUNSON    Mother:  AGNES JOHNSTONE     
 

Same couple? I'd be intrigued to know if Agnes was remarried by Jan 1872 or not 

Cheers
Anne

[Clare Fowler]

Hi Anne,

Sorry it has taken me a few days to reply.  This is getting very interesting!!!  I will tell you all that I knew up until your post, and then we can take it from there.

It would appear that Agnes Johnston was born ca 1831 to parents James Johnston and Agnes Marchbank, in Dumfries (to be confirmed).  At some point, she married James Gunson, a merchant seaman (IGI has it as 10th July 1849 - I have yet to check the OPRs)  From what I can tell they had 3 children - Ellen (born ca 1849), Janet (b 1857) and Sarah (b.1858).  I have both the birth certs for Janet and Sarah, where James is given as the father.  I am guessing that there are more children in between but I haven't found them yet.

The next child that Agnes has is called Elizabeth born in 1862.  Again, I have the birth cert  for her.  By this point Agnes has reverted to her maiden name, no father is given and Elizabeth is registered with the surname Johnston.

Agnes then seems to have gone on to have a further 5 children with a Daniel Chambers (my GGG grandfather) between 1864 and 1875 (that I know of!): John (b. ca1864), Daniel (my GG Grandfather b.1865), Agnes (b. 1867), Isabella(b.1870) and Robert Johnston Chambers (b. 1875).  I have birth certificates for all of these other than John so far.  All show Daniel as the father.  I have tracked them through the 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901 census (handily they never moved from the same address!), which is where I have picked up the details of the children.  It is worth noting that Agnes's earlier children (Ellen, Janet, Sarah and Elizabeth) show up with differing surnames in the census entries, usually as Johnston or Chambers, but not Gunson.

Agnes and Daniel did not marry until 1874, making Robert Johnston in 1875 their only 'legitimate' son.  I had wondered what had made them wait so long, and figured that it might me because she hadn't been widowed until around then!  I don't know why I smelled a rat - I just did!  It gets more curious by the fact that Daniel died in an 'old man's asylum', listed as single and his death certified by an English niece, when Agnes was still alive and well and living in the family home.  I have never been able to find when James Gunson died - and I got to wondering if he actually had or if Agnes was lying.

So to what I have learned since your post...
I had not heard of Robert Johnston Chambers in 1872 before.  I checked scotlandspeople for the corresponding certificate, and sure enough he was born on 14 Jan 1872, but to Daniel Chambers and Agnes Johnston.  Agnes is listed as the widow of James Gunson, and the child is marked as illegitimate.  Interestingly, the certificate also says that Agnes was widowed '8 years ago', which would be around 1864, which might give me a new lead on James.

So, sorry for the rambling - but sometimes it helps just to get it all down in 'black and white' to make sense of it.  And also to get a fresh pair of eyes to look at it.  Thanks for the 'eagle eye' on the IGI about the 'other' Robert as that has helped me quite a bit already.

As for what to do about James - I think I will have to find the marriage entry in the OPRs for him and Agnes and hope that gives me his parents' names.  That will help any further verification of death certificates.

thanks again for all the help.

Cheers,
Clare

[gunson]

Hi Clare,
             I am research officer for the one-name Gunson Family History Society and can probably help you in regard to your enquiries regarding James Gunson of Glasgow from Dumfries (1823-1895). Everything Anne has told you relates to this man or his family. I am happy to give you more information if you write to me at [email removed to prevent misuse - please use Private Messaging facility]. As I had originally assumed Agnes Johnston had died in or before 1864 I was pleased to learn why I had not been able to follow the careers of Janet and Sarah Gunson. I did not know of Ellen.
Regards                Niel

[Clare Fowler]

Hi all,

Many thanks to everyone who helped on this - I have now tracked down the elusive James and confirmed my suspicion that he hadn't died when I thought he had.  And I have made a great contact in the process.

Another Rootschat success 

Cheers,
Clare

[Margaret Gray]

Hello,

I have just joined Roots Chat.  James Gunson was my maternal Great Great Grandfather.  His daughter Janet Gunson was my Great Grandmother and married my Great Grandfather Hugh McLachlan in 1879.  They had three sons, William, my grandfather, and Davie and Hugh.    I have always been interested in the name Gunson.  I believe it's Scandinavian, but would love to learn more about James' roots.

Margaret Gray