Author Topic: HOLLINGWORTH - BRAMMAN Missing Marriage in 1847.  (Read 677 times)

Offline Penholder

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HOLLINGWORTH - BRAMMAN Missing Marriage in 1847.
« on: Tuesday 26 September 17 17:46 BST (UK) »
The Nottingham Review and General Advertiser of 17th March 1848 reported on a murder trial where one of the witnesses was Eliza BRAMMER.   She stated that at the time of the alleged murder her surname was HOLLINGSWORTH and she "had been married since last August".

I think she is 'my' Eliza HOLLINGWORTH whose 'husband' was John BRAMMAN.   I have never identified their marriage and had come to suppose that it never took place.   Now that I know Eliza  stated it as a fact in court and gave a timeframe I feel more inclined to believe that there was a marriage but if so then, why can't I find any evidence for it?   I've tried various different spellings for both bride and groom.   Might the GRO indexes have missed it out?

Diana
Hakes - Piddington, Northants; Bucks
Hillyard, Lebatt & Bodsworth - Piddington, Northants
Bonner - Warwickshire & Leicestershire
Caughlin - Clonmore Co. Wicklow/Carlow
Muzzell - Sussex
Jones - Rushbury, Shropshire; Nuneaton & Birmingham, Warwickshire; Piddington & Northampton, Northants
Penhorwood - Devon
Shutt - Devon & Kent
Oliver, Davies & James - Pembrokeshire
Green, Enser, Oldham, Bramman, Billings & Watmough - Nottinghamshire

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Offline CaroleW

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Re: HOLLINGWORTH - BRAMMAN Missing Marriage in 1847.
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 26 September 17 22:52 BST (UK) »
Lettice Parker Bramman mmn Hollingworth  June qtr 1851 Radford 15  709

Further birth entry for same name and same mmn March qtr 1852   

Daughter Emily born Sept qtr 1854

 
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline louisa maud

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Re: HOLLINGWORTH - BRAMMAN Missing Marriage in 1847.
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 26 September 17 22:55 BST (UK) »
This family including Lettice is on 1851, one child born 1844 is shown as Ann Billings Bramman, the only child I can find registered so far with the Christian names of Ann Billings is a child by the surname of Hodson born Auckland, still looking for more info on other children on 1851

By the way, have you traced them on any census

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Lethbridge Paddington Slough
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes

Offline louisa maud

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Re: HOLLINGWORTH - BRAMMAN Missing Marriage in 1847.
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 26 September 17 23:10 BST (UK) »
It would appear that on 1841 Nottingham the family consists of
John aged 34
Senna aged 35
Marianne 10
William 8
John 4
Samuel 1

Senna died in 1844 Radford aged 37

1851 children following on
Elizabeth 10
Ann Billings 7
Lettice Parker 1

Elizabeth, Samuel and John have mother's maiden name as King whereas Lettice is shown as Hollingsworth

We are no nearer finding a marriage, is it possible there wasn't a marriage but in name only

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Lethbridge Paddington Slough
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes

Offline CaroleW

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Re: HOLLINGWORTH - BRAMMAN Missing Marriage in 1847.
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 26 September 17 23:14 BST (UK) »
Was Eliza previously married? 
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline CaroleW

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Re: HOLLINGWORTH - BRAMMAN Missing Marriage in 1847.
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 26 September 17 23:20 BST (UK) »
Births September qtr 1843   
Elizabeth Billings   Bramman    Radford    15   607 mmn King

No John Bramman marriage between 1844-1851 anywhere
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Penholder

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Re: HOLLINGWORTH - BRAMMAN Missing Marriage in 1847.
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 27 September 17 09:16 BST (UK) »
Hi CaroleW and Louisa Maud

Thank you both for your replies.   It is just the marriage I'm looking for.   I already have the other information and more regarding the family.   If it weren't that Eliza had explained her change of surname by saying she had married since the previous August I would just have settled for the fact that there had been no marriage.   Perhaps that's still what I have to do although I'm hoping otherwise!

Kind regards,

Diana
Hakes - Piddington, Northants; Bucks
Hillyard, Lebatt & Bodsworth - Piddington, Northants
Bonner - Warwickshire & Leicestershire
Caughlin - Clonmore Co. Wicklow/Carlow
Muzzell - Sussex
Jones - Rushbury, Shropshire; Nuneaton & Birmingham, Warwickshire; Piddington & Northampton, Northants
Penhorwood - Devon
Shutt - Devon & Kent
Oliver, Davies & James - Pembrokeshire
Green, Enser, Oldham, Bramman, Billings & Watmough - Nottinghamshire

Offline louisa maud

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Re: HOLLINGWORTH - BRAMMAN Missing Marriage in 1847.
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 27 September 17 09:18 BST (UK) »
something interesting which may or not be of any use at all

Thomas Billings Bramman
baptised 07/03/1819, St Mary Nottingham
parents John and Elizabeth

So, is Billings a family name?

I think a baptism search is called for

No nearer to  a finding a marriage

Louisa Maud

Sorry crossed in sending with Diana so you can ignore all of this,
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Lethbridge Paddington Slough
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes

Offline Penholder

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Re: HOLLINGWORTH - BRAMMAN Missing Marriage in 1847.
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 27 September 17 09:39 BST (UK) »
Hi Louisa maud

Thank you for your continued interest.

Yes, Billings was a name from John BRAMMAN's side of the family.   The child enumerated as 7 year old Ann Billings BRAMMAN in 1851 should have been Elizabeth Billings BRAMMAN.   Eliza had an illegitimate daughter called Elizabeth HOLLINGWORTH - enumerated as HOLLING.   My best guess is that either the enumerator was confused by two children of the same name or the younger Elizabeth, who was from John's marriage to Senna KING, was called Ann to avoid confusion.

Regards,

Diana
Hakes - Piddington, Northants; Bucks
Hillyard, Lebatt & Bodsworth - Piddington, Northants
Bonner - Warwickshire & Leicestershire
Caughlin - Clonmore Co. Wicklow/Carlow
Muzzell - Sussex
Jones - Rushbury, Shropshire; Nuneaton & Birmingham, Warwickshire; Piddington & Northampton, Northants
Penhorwood - Devon
Shutt - Devon & Kent
Oliver, Davies & James - Pembrokeshire
Green, Enser, Oldham, Bramman, Billings & Watmough - Nottinghamshire