Author Topic: joseph gooch norfolk 1861  (Read 1578 times)

Offline bubylauj

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joseph gooch norfolk 1861
« on: Tuesday 03 October 17 13:51 BST (UK) »
Not sure if this is the correct forum to post this in apologies in advance if not.

I have recently started searching my other half's family as he wanted to know more about them only to hit a bit of a problem.  :-\

So i got back to Joseph Gooch born in Norwich Norfolk in 1861 so i start looking for census records and jackpot  ;D  i found 1911, 1901 and 1891 and from there things took the turn!  ???

On the 1891 census he has his mother listed a Maria B Sutherland and two of his sisters (Annie M Gooch and Eliza A Gooch) at first i thought this was good until i tried to dig deeper Maria seems to have many children only 3 with the surname Gooch and 3+ with Sutherland, she has remained single all the time and none seem to have a father on their records.  :-X

I have managed to find Maria on the 1891, 1881, 1871, 1861, 1851 and 1841 census however Joseph  only comes up on the 1891 with his mother not on the 61,71 and 81. (61 i thought may be to do with month of birth and census taking place) I can't seem to find him.
I'm not sure where i have gone wrong or what to do to get past this. ???
Anyone had similar experience or any advice (apart from run away)  it would be very much appreciated.
Have a great day.
Laura.
wells in kent and london bedwell in suffolk area haynes in london and abbott in suffolk area Gooch norfolk

Offline PaulineJ

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Re: joseph gooch norfolk 1861
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 13:56 BST (UK) »
You need to transcribe the confusing censuses, not describe them.

This is the 1891?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4HWW-RN2

With a marriage to sarah utting 1883 in norwich?

The birth in norwich mar 1/4 1861 has no mmn.
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Offline bubylauj

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Re: joseph gooch norfolk 1861
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 14:15 BST (UK) »

1891 Joseph Gooch Aged 30yrss
Head Born   1861
Mother   Maria B Sutherland
Wife of Joseph   Sarah Gooch
Children listed   
Joseph Gooch Alfred Gooch Bertie Gooch Ernest G Gooch Alice M Gooch Anna P Gooch Lillie N Gooch
Birth Place   Norwich, Norfolk, England
Parish St Margaret
Residence Place:   St Margaret, Norfolk, England Norwich
district West Wymer Norwich
ED   5 Piece:   1528Folio:   62
Household    
Names          Ages
Joseph Gooch   30
Sarah Gooch   32
Joseph Gooch   6
Alfred Gooch   4
Bertie Gooch   1
Maria B Sutherland   64
Annie M Gooch   32
Eliza A Gooch   24
Ernest G Gooch   8
Alice M Gooch   6
Anna P Gooch   4
Lillie N Gooch   3/12
John Drak   71

1881 Maria Sutherland
Aged   53 about 1828 Head of House
born   Norwich, Norfolk, England
Parish Norwich St Benedict Norfolk
Address   Heigham St Norwich
Occupation Charwoman
ED 8a Piece 1949 Folio 22 Page    37
Household    
Names                  Ages
Maria Sutherland   53
Annie Sutherland   33
Rachel Sutherland   20
Agnes Sutherland   19
Eliza Sutherland           17
George Robinson   22

1871 Maria Southerland /Sutherland
Aged   47 Estimated born 1824
Relation   Inmate Where born   N [Norwich, Norfolk, England]
Parish Heigham Ecclesiastical parish   St Philip Norfolk England
Sub-registration district   West Wymer
institution   Norwich Workhouse Household schedule number   1 Piece 1822 Folio 116 Page    18

1861 Maria Sutherland
Aged   32 Estimated born 1829 born Norwich
Relation Daughter to Mary Ann Sutherland
Civil Parish:Norwich St Peter Mancroft Norwiich Norfolk
Sub-registration  Mancroft
ED   17 Household schedule number 165
Piece 1217 Folio 202 Page Number   25
Household
Names                   Aged
Mary Ann Sutherland   65
Maria Sutherland   32
Henry Sutherland   23
James D Sutherland   11
John H Sutherland   5
Ann M Sutherland   2
wells in kent and london bedwell in suffolk area haynes in london and abbott in suffolk area Gooch norfolk

Offline PaulineJ

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Re: joseph gooch norfolk 1861
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 14:50 BST (UK) »
No, transcribe, not cut and paste.

It doesnt look to be the same family units to me.

Rachel Emily Sutherland b sept 1/4 1861Norwich.

If Joseph was b mar qtr, i dont think its possible to have sprogged Rachel too.
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Offline sarah

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Re: joseph gooch norfolk 1861
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 15:19 BST (UK) »
I have just amended your post bubylauj
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Offline lizdb

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Re: joseph gooch norfolk 1861
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 16:13 BST (UK) »
Looking at the 1891 census, it is not clear that Mary Sutherland is Joseph Gooch's mother.
They are separate households altogether.
I am wondering if Mary is actually unrelated, within her own household she does nor describe herself as "head" but rather as "mother", followed by a string of children, the youngest ones of which could not possibly be her own children.

Here is the transcription

1891

16 Queen Hungary? Yard, West Wymer
Joseph Gooch 30 butcher bn Norwich
Sarah 32 wife
Joseph 6 son
Alfred 4 son
Bertie 1 son all bn Norwich

17 Queen Hungary? Yard
Maria B Sutherland  64 mother  single charwoman
Annie M 30 dtr single silk winder
Eliza A 24 dtr single machinist
Ernest G 8 son
Alice M 6 dtr
Anna P 4 dtr
Lily H 3mths dtr
John Drak 41 visitor single  shoemaker

all bn Norwich

It looks as if Annie gave the info and relationships given are all in relation to her.

Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lizdb

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Re: joseph gooch norfolk 1861
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 16:25 BST (UK) »
Given his occupation, this 1881 might be worth looking into.

What is stated cannot be correct - Joseph Amos cannot possibly be a son!

1881
1 Thornham Green West Ham
Albert Amos  24 carman bn Norwich
Sarah 21 bn London
Alberta 3
Lillian 1
Joseph  22 son Butchers Assistant bn Norwich

(he isn't Sarah's brother- likely marriage shows her to be nee Vincent but I haven't checked with childrens' births to check mmn as such)

Modified :  - No, he can be ruled out, as he is on later censuses (when we already have Joseph Gooch) as Amess.
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online Millmoor

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Re: joseph gooch norfolk 1861
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 16:38 BST (UK) »
The groindex has a Joseph Gooch born in Norwich Jan - March 1861.The mother's maiden name has been left blank which may be an indication of illegitimacy. It would be well worth obtaining his birth.cert to obtain his mother's name as if she subsequently married he may be recorded under her married name in the censuses you have not located.

William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)

Offline bubylauj

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Re: joseph gooch norfolk 1861
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 03 October 17 16:47 BST (UK) »
oh i see now thank you for pointing it out, ancestry had put Annie and Eliza down as gooch and when you clicked on Maria it said children names and listed Jospeh after looking at the image of the 1891 census i can see it looks like two different households.
 
PS i will work on learning to transcribe properly.

wells in kent and london bedwell in suffolk area haynes in london and abbott in suffolk area Gooch norfolk