Author Topic: William Thomas's Parents  (Read 1761 times)

Offline Glynm

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William Thomas's Parents
« on: Sunday 08 October 17 15:38 BST (UK) »
Hi
For some time now I have failed to find the parents of my 2xGreat Grandfather, William Thomas (1822-1895). I would be grateful for any assistance since another pair of eyes may be able to spot something I am missing.
William married Anne Jones in Abererch on  26 August 1843.
From Yffor.com Abererch Marriage Register 1837-1847:
70  26/08/1843  William  Thomas  FA  Ba  Lab  Llaniestyn  Thos Wms Lab  Anne  Jones  FA  Sp  Rhydygwystl  Gth Jones Joiner.
At the time of the marriage William was a labourer living in the parish of Llaniestyn, his father was Thomas Williams (patronymics) and also a labourer.
From the 1871, 1881 and 1891 Censuses William's birthplace was given as the parish of Rhiw and approximate year of birth 1822.
I have searched the baptism records for Rhiw and the immediately surrounding parishes including Llaniestyn and Aberdaron CM Chapel cannot find a record. Could there be another non-conformist chapel in the Rhiw area where William might have been baptised?

Also I have been unable to find William Thomas in the 1841 Census unless he is the 17 year old in Caernarfon Jail. I realise that if William was living with his parents the census officer would probably have written William Williams.

I would be grateful for any help.

Glyn
Jones - Penmachno/Blaenau Ffestiniog/Capel Garmon
Thomas - Abererch/Porthmadog
Evans - Llangelynin/Llanaelhaern
Jones - Pwllheli/Abererch
Brammer - Lincolnshire/Nottinghamshire
Robb - London/Scotland

Offline despair

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Re: William Thomas's Parents
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 08 October 17 20:37 BST (UK) »
As a very long shot,given the vagaries of patronymics,is this worth considering?The father is given as a joiner,however-transposed?Llaniestyn is less than 10 miles from Rhiw?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMM8-6Q2

Regards
Roger

Offline despair

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Re: William Thomas's Parents
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 08 October 17 23:12 BST (UK) »
NorthWalesBMD has this interesting note on the marriage:-

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kuo/

Regards
Roger


Offline despair

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Re: William Thomas's Parents
« Reply #3 on: Monday 09 October 17 11:13 BST (UK) »
Do you know if William had any brothers or sisters who could be used to determine parents?

Regards
Roger


Offline Glynm

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Re: William Thomas's Parents
« Reply #4 on: Monday 09 October 17 12:13 BST (UK) »
Hi Roger
Thank you very much for your inputs which have made me have a re-think. Answering your points in reverse order:
No I have no details of William's siblings, however, there is one avenue which I now need to investigate which I will explain later.
I believe there is a slight transcribe error in BMD. The next marriage entry in St Cawdraf's Marriage Register taken from Yffor.com is:-
71  05/09/1843  Watkin  Williams  FA  Ba  Grocer  Tynllan Llanarmon  Wm Rbts Fa  Anne  Jones  FA  Sp  Fourcrosses  Harry Jones Gr 
William Williams should be Watkin Williams a grocer who married a different Anne Jones.
It is frustrating that I cannot find the original register image on Findmypast who really messed up the filing of Welsh Parish Records some years ago. If you search for the an Ann Jones married in Abererch the records submitted are for Beddgelert likewise Ynyschyhaiarn are under Tudweliog and Clynnog under Capel Curig. End of my moan of the day but the original image may give the names of witnesses which could be a clue.
I must apologise for putting copy and paste lines from Yffor.com without headings which has probably led to some confusion since Thomas Williams was not a joiner but a labourer (Lab). The joiner was the father of Anne Jones, Griffith Jones (Gth Jones). However, writing Griffith's name out in full has suddenly made me realise that like many other Welsh families there seems to be a tradition in my family of naming the older children after their grandparents. Thomas and Anne's son (my Father's Grandfather) was named Griffith as was my Father who was named Griffith Richard after both his Grandfathers.
Thomas and Ann's children were named as follows:-
Elizabeth (1843-1846), Jane (1845-1857), Elizabeth (1848- ), Griffith (1850-1922), Catherine (1857- ) and Jane (1860-1831). It my be significant that after the early deaths of the first two daughters they had to use the names for subsequent daughters. I believe Jane was named after her maternal grandmother and Catherine after Anne's Grandmother. Elizabeth is the one I cannot connect, could she be named after Thomas Williams wife? Griffith Thomas's eldest daughter was also named Elizabeth.

Glyn


Jones - Penmachno/Blaenau Ffestiniog/Capel Garmon
Thomas - Abererch/Porthmadog
Evans - Llangelynin/Llanaelhaern
Jones - Pwllheli/Abererch
Brammer - Lincolnshire/Nottinghamshire
Robb - London/Scotland

Offline despair

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Re: William Thomas's Parents
« Reply #5 on: Monday 09 October 17 14:34 BST (UK) »
There is a christening of Ann Jones to Griffith and Jane Jones,Four Crosses Calvinistic,Abererch,1822.
Could this mean William's parents are Thomas and Elizabeth?

Regards
Roger

Offline Glynm

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Re: William Thomas's Parents
« Reply #6 on: Monday 09 October 17 14:47 BST (UK) »
Yes Roger you have the right Ann who married William Thomas in 1843. We know that William's father's name was Thomas William and I am surmising that his wife might be called Elizabeth from William and Ann's eldest daughter being named Elizabeth.

Glyn
Jones - Penmachno/Blaenau Ffestiniog/Capel Garmon
Thomas - Abererch/Porthmadog
Evans - Llangelynin/Llanaelhaern
Jones - Pwllheli/Abererch
Brammer - Lincolnshire/Nottinghamshire
Robb - London/Scotland

Offline despair

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Re: William Thomas's Parents
« Reply #7 on: Monday 09 October 17 18:37 BST (UK) »
The only marriage I can find for a Thomas William(s) to an Elizabeth that might look relevant is one listed as to Elizabeth Owen 1818 Aberdaron.However it looks to me as if the image says Bangor!Can't find any children from this marriage.

I did wonder if William was born out of wedlock to an Elizabeth who subsequently married a Thomas William(s).I haven't been able to find data to match this.The nearest I can find is the following:
There is a William Arthur born To an Elizabeth Arthur(no father given) in Aberdaron in 1822.Thiis Elizabeth Arthur is the patronymically named daughter of Arthur Thomas,and there are records of her baptism both as Elizabeth Arthur and Elizabeth Thomas.Could this make her son William Thomas,and his father's name at marriage be the easiest fiction?

Other than that I can only think of adult baptism,which might be difficult to find.

Regards
Roger

Offline despair

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Re: William Thomas's Parents
« Reply #8 on: Monday 09 October 17 19:29 BST (UK) »
Probably not relevant,but there is a marriage of a William Thomas to Elizabeth Williams at Rhiw in 1822.

Regards
Roger