Author Topic: Confused by Southwark parishes  (Read 1065 times)

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Confused by Southwark parishes
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 08 October 17 20:59 BST (UK) »
It would be common for the minister to visit the workhouse regularly to baptise any newly born babies. The baptisms would then be recorded in the parish register.

As you're probably aware, a family with the surname Lane may have been Roman Catholic. The Bermondsey/Rotherhithe area had a large Irish Catholic population at this date.

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Offline Jill Eaton

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Re: Confused by Southwark parishes
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 08 October 17 23:13 BST (UK) »


As you're probably aware, a family with the surname Lane may have been Roman Catholic. The Bermondsey/Rotherhithe area had a large Irish Catholic population at this date.

I have considered the possibility. it would certainly explain why I've been unable to find a C of E baptism on Ancestry (always assuming the parish records have been added yet) and I do now need to check those again.

However, Mary Ann married in a C of E church and all her children were baptised C of E. Having said that one of her sons (my grandfather) married my grandmother who WAS a RC of Irish descent at the church of Our Lady of La Salette, St Olave Bermondsey.

Frustratingly, without the creed registers I can't jump to any definite conclusions about her religious persuasion. Identifying her mother Hannah would certainly help.
Davis - Berkshire & London
Sutcliffe - Yorkshire & London
Harrington - Ireland and London
Fuller - Cambridgeshire and Essex
Waldron/Waldren - Devon & London
Frisby and Lee - Leicestershire
Hollingsworth - Essex
Williams - Ireland? and London
Ellis, Reed & Temple - London
Lane - ?
Surplice - Cambridgeshire
Elwood - Cambridgeshire

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Offline Jill Eaton

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Re: Confused by Southwark parishes
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 14 October 17 12:09 BST (UK) »
I've searched the following baptism registers for the period of one year after Mary was born  - so up to the end of October 1872:

St John Horslydown
St Olave Bermondsey
St Mary Magdalene Bermondsey (because she married there)
St George The Martyr
St Thomas Southwark
Christchurch Rotherhithe
St Saviours Southwark

I haven't found any trace of her there. I only found the surname "Lane" twice throughout all the parish registers. Fatherless baptisms jump out as only the mother's name is recorded.

Do I search all the rest? I'm prepared to put in the time but the location of the others seems unlikely with Mary Ann having been born in workhouse at John Horslydown.

Do I extend the search past 12 months? Did workhouse baptisms take place close to the birthdate?

Alternatively (and I'm beginning to think this is probably more likely) Mary Ann may have been baptised RC. Our Lady of La Salette appears to be the closest RC chapel open at the time of her birth
Davis - Berkshire & London
Sutcliffe - Yorkshire & London
Harrington - Ireland and London
Fuller - Cambridgeshire and Essex
Waldron/Waldren - Devon & London
Frisby and Lee - Leicestershire
Hollingsworth - Essex
Williams - Ireland? and London
Ellis, Reed & Temple - London
Lane - ?
Surplice - Cambridgeshire
Elwood - Cambridgeshire

Offline jonw65

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Re: Confused by Southwark parishes
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 14 October 17 14:06 BST (UK) »
Have you found any baptisms at all recorded in, say, St John, abode Workhouse?
Your only - extremely faint - chance of finding out anything might be if Hannah is mentioned in the minutes of the St Olave Board of Guardians.
It is unlikely, but I found mention of my grandfather's sisters in the Islington minutes, so you never know.
You would think a likely Hannah might be found in the area in the 1871 census. Though the best I can come up with is an Anne
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRF8-34T

There's an Ellen Lane birth registration in Dec 1872, St Olave, no mother's maiden name given. But I don't know if there is any connection. Probably not, though Mary and John Sutcliffe seem to have had a daughter Ellen Rhoda in 1892. (John Sutcliffe had a sister Rhoda?)
Sorry, not a lot of help, I know.
John

Offline Jill Eaton

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Re: Confused by Southwark parishes
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 14 October 17 14:57 BST (UK) »

It is unlikely, but I found mention of my grandfather's sisters in the Islington minutes, so you never know.
You would think a likely Hannah might be found in the area in the 1871 census. Though the best I can come up with is an Anne
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRF8-34T

There's an Ellen Lane birth registration in Dec 1872, St Olave, no mother's maiden name given. But I don't know if there is any connection. Probably not, though Mary and John Sutcliffe seem to have had a daughter Ellen Rhoda in 1892. (John Sutcliffe had a sister Rhoda?)
Sorry, not a lot of help, I know.
John

I think you may be more help than you realise John. I've just looked up on the gov.uk certificate indexes which also show the mother's surname for a birth as well as the father's. Ellen Lane has the mother's surname blank which presumably means her mother was unmarried and the Only surname mentioned is LANE. She might even be a younger sister of my Mary Ann. I will order the certificate. if it looks as though it is I will have an address for her mother.

Yes, there is an Ellen Rhoda Sutcliffe to a mother with the surname Lane.  John Sutcliffe did have a sister called Rhoda.

As for a possible Hannah called Anna on the 1871 census. I wouldn't discount it. I've found Anna/Hannah/Hannorah or even Joanna all apparently interchangeable. My great aunt was always called Great Aunty Anna - once I started researching I discovered the name on her birth certificate was Hannah. Her RC baptismal name was Anna ;D ::)
Davis - Berkshire & London
Sutcliffe - Yorkshire & London
Harrington - Ireland and London
Fuller - Cambridgeshire and Essex
Waldron/Waldren - Devon & London
Frisby and Lee - Leicestershire
Hollingsworth - Essex
Williams - Ireland? and London
Ellis, Reed & Temple - London
Lane - ?
Surplice - Cambridgeshire
Elwood - Cambridgeshire

Offline Jill Eaton

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Re: Confused by Southwark parishes
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 14 October 17 15:09 BST (UK) »
It may also be purely coincidence but the GBC/1871/0632/0239 is in the ecclesiastical parish of St Mary Magdalene. Where my Mary Ann got married.
Davis - Berkshire & London
Sutcliffe - Yorkshire & London
Harrington - Ireland and London
Fuller - Cambridgeshire and Essex
Waldron/Waldren - Devon & London
Frisby and Lee - Leicestershire
Hollingsworth - Essex
Williams - Ireland? and London
Ellis, Reed & Temple - London
Lane - ?
Surplice - Cambridgeshire
Elwood - Cambridgeshire

Offline Jill Eaton

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Re: Confused by Southwark parishes
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 19 October 17 12:43 BST (UK) »
I have received the pdf of Ellen Lane's birth certificate

Ellen Lane
born 6th December 1872 at the Union Workhouse St John Horslydown. Mother's name marked with an "X". Registered by the same registrar who recorded Mary Ann's birth in 1871
Name of father left blank

Mother's name......EMILY Lane.

So I now have two daughter's called LANE
born 14 months apart
Both born at exactly the same place
Both illegitimate
Different mother's Christian name

Coincidence?
Davis - Berkshire & London
Sutcliffe - Yorkshire & London
Harrington - Ireland and London
Fuller - Cambridgeshire and Essex
Waldron/Waldren - Devon & London
Frisby and Lee - Leicestershire
Hollingsworth - Essex
Williams - Ireland? and London
Ellis, Reed & Temple - London
Lane - ?
Surplice - Cambridgeshire
Elwood - Cambridgeshire