Confused by Southwark parishes

[Jill Eaton]

I have an ancestor born on 4th October 1871 at

The Union Workhouse St Saviour Southwark.
Registration district St Olave Southwark
sub district St John Horslydown

Her name was Mary Ann Lane. She was illegitimate and born to a mother called Hannah Lane.

I visited The Metropolitan Archives some years back looking for admission and discharge records - for Hannah, and Creed registers for Mary Ann

I couldn't find anything

Now I'm wondering if I was looking at the incorrect records. I did email them before my visit and told them what I was looking for. They didn't have records for this workhouse for this date.

However, it occurs to me that Mary Ann (who can't be found on the 1881 census) and Hannah (who may have married or may even have died when Mary Ann was young) may have been living anywhere in the Southwark area.

What confuses me is what counts as "Southwark"? is it Lambeth and Bermondsey and Camberwell? By the time Mary Ann Lane married in 1890 she was living at Barlow Street and married at St Mary Magdalene, Southwark.

On the 1891, 1901 and 1911 census' Mary Ann's place of birth is given as Rotherhithe. Is the Union workhouse, St saviour Southwark in Rotherhithe? if it isn't then she may have memories of living in Rotherhithe but not actually been born there.

Hannah could have come from anywhere but I've tried looking for a possible on the 1871 census simply because it was only a few months before Mary Ann's birth. I've put "Southwark" in the search parameters and come up with several possible hits. They tend to be in the Lambeth and Camberwell areas. Would they be close enough to the Union Workhouse for Hannah to be admitted there to have her child?

Not knowing the area it makes it difficult to know what is a reasonable search area.

[BumbleB]

This may help you:

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Southwark/

[Jill Eaton]

This may help you:

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Southwark/

It does have some useful information and particularly the link to the Mitcham School as I've wondered if Mary was sent to such an establishment being fatherless. I will check the 1881 census to see if she was sent there.

[Bookbox]

The birth of Mary Ann Lane was registered in St Olave Southwark, so in 1871 you would expect it to have been at the Parish Street workhouse. You were informed correctly that there are no Admission/Discharge or Creed Registers for that workhouse at that date.

But it is puzzling that you say the birth certificate also mentions St Saviour’s. In 1869 the St Saviour’s Union took over St George the Martyr and Newington poor law unions, and later it became the Southwark Union. But it was always separate from St Olave, which later became the Bermondsey Union.

St Saviour's did have several branch workhouses, but I wasn’t aware of one in St Olave.

Just for clarification, would you be able to take another look at the birth certificate please, and post exactly what is written in Column 1 (‘When and where born’)? Maybe we can help further?

[Jill Eaton]

I've attached a copy

[KGarrad]

From the certificate, the registration district is St Olave, Southwark. sub-district St John, Horslydown.

Where born is shown as Union Workhouse.
Residence of informant is shown as Union Workhouse, St John's, Southwark.

Where does it say St Saviour?

[Bookbox]

Thanks for posting it. So no mention at all of St Saviour’s.

As the sub-district is St John Horselydown, it was surely the Parish Street workhouse. So you did look in the right place previously, but there are no records, unfortunately.

For what it’s worth, the relevant information about Parish Street is here ...
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/StOlave/#Post-1834

Map here (top right corner). The workhouse was in the same block as the church.
http://london1868.com/weller56.htm

[Jill Eaton]

Thanks. It was only seeing it blown up on the screen that I see it says St Johns Southwark. I have quite literally been reading it as St Saviours all this time 

[Jill Eaton]

I've had a look at the link for the Parish Street workhouse and there is no mention of a chapel in the workhouse. So would baptisms, always assuming they weren't non-conformist, have been held at St John's Church next door?