Author Topic: Missing deaths records: Jane Strachan, David Findlay.  (Read 807 times)

Offline GordonFindlay

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Missing deaths records: Jane Strachan, David Findlay.
« on: Monday 09 October 17 03:07 BST (UK) »
I cannot find any dates of death of two great-grandparents, Jane and David Findlay, from the Craig, Montrose area.

Jane Strachan, b. 31 May 1849, Kineff, Kincardineshire
m. (1) William Al(l)ison), 28 Nov 1873, Brucemills, Dun, Forfarshire. He died 25 Nov 1874, Saint Cyrus, Forfarshire.

   (2) David Findlay, 17 Dec 1879, Brechin. He was born 17 May 1857, Saint Cyrus.

These two settled in the Craig/Farnell/Montrose area - he worked on various farms. 

I have found them together in the 1891 census (Kirkton of Craig) and 1901 census (Mains of Usan, Craig). Jane's DOB is recorded as 1852 in some places, but I am certain it was 1849 - have a parish register transcript.

I haven't found them in 1881 census.

They bore 7 children; the last in 1892 or 1893 was registered in Craig.

Then the trail goes cold. 

- I cannot find them in the 1911 census on Scotlands' People.
- I cannot find their deaths on Scotlands' People, Find My Past, or Family Search. Maybe I'm searching wrong, but I have cast the net wide!

It seems unlikely that they moved far at age over 50, and a lot of the family stayed in the Craig/Montrose/Ferrydean area until at least 1946.

Find A Grave hasn't produced anything at all convincing.

Any tips for next step?

Slainte
Gordon

Findlay - Aberdeen, Angus
Shepherd - Angus
Cargill  - Angus
Melvin - Aberdeen
Coull - Angus, Aberdeen
Strachan - Kincardine, Aberdeen

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Offline Liviani

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Re: Missing deaths records: Jane Strachan, David Findlay.
« Reply #1 on: Monday 09 October 17 03:53 BST (UK) »
Hi Gordon, I've found a possible death for you for Jane. Note that Jane can be interchangeable with Jean and Janet.
 
I had the following search parameters;

Finlay (fuzzy), J (names beginning with), Strachan (other surname), Female, year of birth 1849 (+/- 1).

One result was returned as follows;

FINDLAY
JEAN
80
1929
685/12 50
Cramond

Now Cramond is in Edinburgh. Is it possible that Jean/Jane was widowed by this point and perhaps moved to the Edinburgh area to be cared for by relatives? (perhaps some or one of her children moved there?).

I'm not having much luck pinning down David Finlay as yet, late here perhaps someone else might have much luck. If not I'll try again tomorrow. I'd consider viewing the above death for Jean/Jane though. It's likely that her husband/late-husband is named, depending on the knowledge of the informant of course. I do feel this is her given the information I've searched though.

Jill.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

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Offline Liviani

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Re: Missing deaths records: Jane Strachan, David Findlay.
« Reply #2 on: Monday 09 October 17 04:18 BST (UK) »
If 1929 death for Jean/Jane is correct.. possibles for 1911 census?

FINDLAY
DAVID
1911
M
53
708/ 3/ 2
Gladsmuir
East Lothian

FINDLAY
JANE
1911
F
62
708/ 3/ 2
Gladsmuir
East Lothian

Other possible;

FINDLAY
DAVID
1911
M
52
280/ 4/ 3
Craig
Angus


Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline GordonFindlay

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Re: Missing deaths records: Jane Strachan, David Findlay.
« Reply #3 on: Monday 09 October 17 04:36 BST (UK) »
Jill

many, many thanks! That is indeed Jane Strachan/Allison/Findlay - the full death cert lists both her husbands (as 'deceased'), and she was living with a daughter, and son in law John Hunter.  Both her parents are listed and match.

The two census returns for Gladsmuir look likely (I've already seen the other one at Craig - definitely the wrong David Findlay).  The ages match, the number of children born match, and the birthplaces also match.

This opens up some more lines of enquiry - I'm very grateful.

Gordon
Findlay - Aberdeen, Angus
Shepherd - Angus
Cargill  - Angus
Melvin - Aberdeen
Coull - Angus, Aberdeen
Strachan - Kincardine, Aberdeen

Offline GordonFindlay

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Re: Missing deaths records: Jane Strachan, David Findlay.
« Reply #4 on: Monday 09 October 17 04:54 BST (UK) »
Given that it seems they moved around more than I expected, I've now located David Findlay's death certificate - 1926 in Dundee.

Thanks again, Jill.

Findlay - Aberdeen, Angus
Shepherd - Angus
Cargill  - Angus
Melvin - Aberdeen
Coull - Angus, Aberdeen
Strachan - Kincardine, Aberdeen

Offline Liviani

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Re: Missing deaths records: Jane Strachan, David Findlay.
« Reply #5 on: Monday 09 October 17 11:05 BST (UK) »
Given that it seems they moved around more than I expected, I've now located David Findlay's death certificate - 1926 in Dundee.

Thanks again, Jill.

Awh fantastic! I'm really pleased this has been solved for you.

For my own curiosities I'm wondering about the 1911 census. Was David still involved in agriculture and were they living independently of family? Also re David's death in 1926 in Dundee. Had he been living in Dundee at the time? Does it mention his occupation? It definitely seems they are more mobile after 1901.

I think it shows the changes in society that was happening in the late 1800s/early 1900s. The rural populations were declining due to industry and technological advancements. Lots of people moved into the cities due to lack of rural work eventually. That trend continued over time and 2008 was the first time where the urban population was larger world-wide. Just throwing in a random fact there.

(I'm really into history)  ;D
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline GordonFindlay

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Re: Missing deaths records: Jane Strachan, David Findlay.
« Reply #6 on: Monday 09 October 17 21:52 BST (UK) »
In 1911 they were living without family, and he was still working as a Farm Greive, age 58. They were in a village Gladsmuir, near Prestonpans in East Lothian.

He died in the Royal Infirmary, Dundee of prostate cancer and cardiac failure, but at the time was living at Balledgarno, Inchture, Perth. Whether that was with family I don't know: he was aged 69 and Jane was 77, so I hope he wasn't still working.

After he died Jane is next found in 1929 when she died of a stroke at 80. She was with her daughter Elizabeth  and her husband John Hunter, a ploughman, at Davidson's Mains, so still agricultural.

Strange that Jane was Jean only on her death certiificate - every birth certificate (and she had her own cert and 7 children), death certificate of children David and  Elizabeth, two marriage certificates and two husband death cetificates and six censuses (for a total of 20) has Jane.

This pair, after children left home, were very peripatetic for the time and place. none of my other family members in Aberdeenshire and Forfar covered any significant distance. Chasing work I suppose.

Slainte
Gordon
Findlay - Aberdeen, Angus
Shepherd - Angus
Cargill  - Angus
Melvin - Aberdeen
Coull - Angus, Aberdeen
Strachan - Kincardine, Aberdeen

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Missing deaths records: Jane Strachan, David Findlay.
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 10 October 17 19:56 BST (UK) »
Baledgarno http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO2730

Gladsmuir http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NT4573

Davidson's Mains was a village in the late 1920s
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=55.9671&lon=-3.2685&layers=8&b=1 and is now a suburb of Edinburgh http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NT2075

Quote
Saint Cyrus, Forfarshire
The parish of St Cyrus is actually in Kincardineshire
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO7464 - the River North Eask forms the boundary between St Cyrus and Montrose, and between Angus (formerly Forfarshire) and Kincardinehsire.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Liviani

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Re: Missing deaths records: Jane Strachan, David Findlay.
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 12 October 17 10:45 BST (UK) »
he was aged 69 and Jane was 77, so I hope he wasn't still working.

Sadly, in those days he probably was working at 69. I have so many rural/agri people in my tree and the vast majority who survived past 65 were indeed working right up until death in their 70s/80s. Those that weren't working were living and being supported by their children/grandchildren or other relatives and were probably infirm and unable to continue to work. Changed days indeed. The state pension didn't come about until 1908 and people had to be 70. It was lowered in 1925 to 65. Prior to all of this the only people I have seen in my tree that were on any sort of 'pension' are veterans of the armed forced - 'Chelsea Pensioners', though most seemed to take up some sort of work immediately after leaving the forces and taking the pension later.

Strange that Jane was Jean only on her death certiificate - every birth certificate (and she had her own cert and 7 children), death certificate of children David and  Elizabeth, two marriage certificates and two husband death cetificates and six censuses (for a total of 20) has Jane.

The name on the death certificate is the name given by the informant, obviously as Jean/Jean is no longer around to give info, then it's given by a relation or third party and what name THEY knew her as, the other certificates/census directly involve her and she will have had  some form of input in most. If she was more affectionately known as 'Jean' by family then that's what goes down. Jean and Jane are one of (if not the most) most common name variations in Scotland.


Thanks for providing the info Gordon. I found it very interesting. I hope some of what I said has provided a little bit of insight into their lives back then. I would say that they were chasing work, I have a family displaced in the Highland Clearances from Ross and Cromarty and they ended up in a vast number of places in the latter part of the 19th C; West Lothian, Fife, Banffshire, Inverness and eventually in Forfarshire.

Jill.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie