Author Topic: Marriage look up for Catherine Stirling (1840-1898) please  (Read 2335 times)

Offline anne_p

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Re: Marriage look up for Catherine Stirling (1840-1898) please
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 11 October 17 00:01 BST (UK) »
Olicana,
I can see the family in Kirkintilloch from 1851 through to 1871.
I can also see a death cert, held on an ancestry tree for  father, William who died in 1865

There is no female child on any census?

1851:
Cowgate:
William Stirling   32
Margrate Stirling   35
James Stirling   9
Thomson Stirling   7
Robert Stirling   4 Mo

1861:
Coxdale ( same place as 1865 Death)
William Stirling   42
Margret Stirling   40
James Stirling   19
Thomas Stirling   17
Charels Stirling   7
John Stirling   2


Where does your info on daughter Catherine come from?
I cannot positively identify this couple at 1841 but there is no obvious infant child named Catherine Stirling or Figgins on any 1841 return in Kirkintilloch.

58yr old Margaret Stirling, other name Figgins, died in Govan, Lanarkshire in 1875.
Who was the informant to her death?



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Offline Olicana

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Re: Marriage look up for Catherine Stirling (1840-1898) please
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 11 October 17 01:05 BST (UK) »
Anne,

The info on Catherine is from a descendant of hers that lives in America and asked for my help, so perhaps she has erroneous information. She seems to have the same family as in the censuses with John, Charles and James all dying in Salt Lake City, USA - mother on death registration listed as Margaret Feggins/Figgins. She has Margaret born 1814 in Lightburn, Lanarkshire, died 1872, and William born 3 January 1819 in Kirkintilloch, Dunbartonshire, died 23 May 1865 in Kirkintilloch, so ages don't quite match censuses.

I suppose it is possible that Catherine was staying with other relatives on the night of the census...




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Offline ev

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Re: Marriage look up for Catherine Stirling (1840-1898) please
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 11 October 17 06:36 BST (UK) »
Adding this -
1841 Census transcription(FreeCEN)
Union Street , Kirkintilloch , Dunbartonshire.
William Stirling 20 cotton hand loom weaver born Dumbartonshire
Margaret Stirling 25 b. outside Census County
Catherine Stirling 7m b. Dumbartonshire

Did William Stirling and Margaret Figgins have a son Archibald in 1855 Kirkintilloch , if so that should name previous children and note if they are still living.
There is a death for an Archibald Stirling , age 0 , mother's maiden surname Figgins , 1856 Kirkintilloch.

Death for a Robert Stirling , age 6 , mmn Figgins , 1856 Kirkintilloch.


ev
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Offline Olicana

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Re: Marriage look up for Catherine Stirling (1840-1898) please
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 11 October 17 09:38 BST (UK) »
Thank you ev. Yes, they had a son Archibald, born 4 June 1855, Kirkintilloch, died 7 January 1856
Kirkintilloch. They also had a son Robert that died 11 September 1856 Kirkintilloch (but his birth was given as 1851, which would make him 5 when he died).

This is the information I have been given on William and Margaret's children, although it may not be accurate; it seems unlikely that they would name their son Charles when Charles F was still alive:
   
Catherine Stirling (18401898)
James Stirling (18411921)
Thomas Stirling (1844?)
Robert Stirling (18511856)
Charles F. Stirling (18511912)
Charles Stirling (18531854)
Archibald Stirling (18551856)
Margaret Stirling (18571859)
John Stirling (18591928)


Offline MonicaL

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Re: Marriage look up for Catherine Stirling (1840-1898) please
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 11 October 17 15:33 BST (UK) »
.... If so, she would have married Adam Sutherland under the name of Catherine Ferguson. In that case, both the Sutherland marriage and James Ferguson's death probably occurred some time between 1862 and 1866.

If Catherine had married in Scotland, her marriage registration would have been under her maiden name not a married surname.

Why the window of 1862-66?

It might be an idea for your friend to view Archibald's death in 1855. This would confirm how many children William and Margaret had had by 1855 - boys/girls, alive/deceased.

There is the big possibility that Catherine died between the 1841 census where she shows per Ev's posting and the next census of 1851 where there is no record of her from then on.

Why does your friend think that the 1898 death in the US is hers?

On the facts here, we seem to go from an 1841 census entry to her death in 1898. We do have the 1880 US census entry. The likely birth for the daughter from that entry, Catherine born in England c. 1867 does show on www.gro.gov.uk I think. This entry shows in West Derby which fits with the possible marriage where that Catherine showed as born in the Liverpool entry. From the GRO, the mother's maiden name is given as Sutherland (without ordering cert, we can't tell if this was an error or correct).

I do not see so far a confirmation that this Catherine Snr had a maiden name of Stirling as is connected to the Kirkintiloch Stirling family of William and Margaret  :-\

Monica

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Offline Olicana

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Re: Marriage look up for Catherine Stirling (1840-1898) please
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 12 October 17 02:22 BST (UK) »
If Catherine had married in Scotland, her marriage registration would have been under her maiden name not a married surname.
Thank you Monica, I hadn't realised that. It seems Catherine and Adam had two other children, both born in Sunderland: Barbara Fraser Sutherland, born 1861 and Thomas, born 1863, so a previous marriage now appears very unlikely.

From the GRO, the mother's maiden name is given as Sutherland (without ordering cert, we can't tell if this was an error or correct).
The mmn showing as Sutherland is an error. I searched the GRO for all Sutherland births over 20 years including phonetic variations and for every birth, the mmn shown was identical to the child's surname - a little too much of a coincidence!

It might be an idea for your friend to view Archibald's death in 1855. This would confirm how many children William and Margaret had had by 1855 - boys/girls, alive/deceased.
Good idea; I hadn't realised Scottish death certificates had so much information on them.

There is the big possibility that Catherine died between the 1841 census where she shows per Ev's posting and the next census of 1851 where there is no record of her from then on.
I would be inclined to agree except the lady that asked for my help says she is her great great granddaughter  :-\

She also says the 1892 marriage you found for daughter Catherine is correct. Thank you  :)
 

Offline ev

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Re: Marriage look up for Catherine Stirling (1840-1898) please
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 12 October 17 07:48 BST (UK) »
Quote
Thank you Monica, I hadn't realised that. It seems Catherine and Adam had two other children, both born in Sunderland: Barbara Fraser Sutherland, born 1861 and Thomas, born 1863, so a previous marriage now appears very unlikely.

Could this be the family in 1881 ?
LDS 1881 Census transcription -
Barony , Lanark.
Adam Sutherland 59 super of Blantyre accident fund born Loth Sutherland
Catherine Sutherland 48 wife b. Edinburgh
Helen J Sutherland 20 daur insurance clerk b, Kilwinning Ayr
Barbara F Sutherland 19 daur b. England
Thomas W Sutherland 18 son stationer appt b. England
Catherine F A Sutherland 11 daur b. Irving Ayr
Henrietta Sutherland 9 daur b. Irving Ayr


ev
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Offline Millmoor

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Re: Marriage look up for Catherine Stirling (1840-1898) please
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 12 October 17 09:16 BST (UK) »
Interestingly the birth for Helen J Sutherland in Kilwinning on familysearch gives mother's name as Catherine Sutherland.

The birth for Catherine Susan Alexandrina Sutherland in Irvine 20 March 1870 also has mother named as Catherine Sutherland.

Also note that there is a marriage 7 Sep 1859 Leith North between Adam Sutherland and C Sutherland.

William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)

Offline Olicana

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Re: Marriage look up for Catherine Stirling (1840-1898) please
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 12 October 17 10:05 BST (UK) »
Thank you ev. According to the GRO, there was only one Barbara and one Thomas with surname Sutherland born at the right time in England. My friend's family was already living in US by 1880 (as found by Monica on the US census), so it appears Barbara and Thomas belong to the family in Scotland, not hers. It did seem rather odd that these children were born in Sunderland and a little unusual that the second daughter was named after her mother, rather than the first born...

Thank you for that information William; you seem to have confirmed matters  :)