Author Topic: Fletcher born in  (Read 5858 times)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Fletcher born in
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 12 August 18 16:36 BST (UK) »
I am coming to the conclusion that Menie/Mennie/Meady Fletcher are possibly short slang names for Marjory Fletcher.
Could be, but Minnie/Menie is often a pet name for Mary.

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Every search I put into the searches for those names, they all come up married to the same James Brock.
There is only one place to search for originals, and that is Scotland's People. Never believe anything you find online unless it is an image of an original document. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0

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Three dates, did they marry on the last date.
Not necessarily. Those are the dates when their banns were proclaimed in the kirk. The wedding would have been shortly after the third proclamation.

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The only Menie or Mennie Fletcher I could find was born in 1802 in Kilmoden Argyll.
This is obviously not the right person because the parents do not match the ones in the original post, Ebenezer Fletcher and Elizabeth Erskine, and the birthplace doesn't match the census listings. Just because there is only one candidate does not mean that it is the right one.

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If she was married twice as it says she was wouldn't she have married under the name Wright when she married the second time?
No. She would still be recorded under her own surname.

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James Brockie Dob 1693 who married Jean Logan married a Jean Smillie possibly after Jean Logan past away. Jean Smillie is the mother of James Brock 1791.
You seem to be saying that James Brockie fathered James Brock when he was 97 or 98 years old. I don't think this is very likely.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline BronwenS

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Re: Fletcher born in
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 12 August 18 23:01 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your responses - there are other Mennie Fletchers in her line.
Yes I had already questioned Fletch about him fathering a child at that age.
Scotland's People is what I use all the time to ascertain things.
I realise if they aren't there doesn't mean they didn't exist.
thanks for the info about banns and marriages - I wasn't certain when it meant they marry.

Fletch has done quite an extensive thing for me now which I am working through.

cheers Bronwen Christchurch , NZ
Campbell, McKenzie, Ross, MacKay, Munro, Sutherland all of Ross & Comarty
Barry, Gibson, Watson, Summers, Edmonstone, Brock, McCartney all of Glasgow and environs
Erskine, Fletcher of Edinburgh

Offline fletch001

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Re: Fletcher born in
« Reply #29 on: Monday 13 August 18 16:53 BST (UK) »
Hi All,
Yes, Menie I believe is a spelling mistake of Mennie which originates from Gaelic/early Irish modern meaning wealthy.
We are looking for a Mennie Fletcher, not a Minnie Fletcher which we know is short for Mary but also for Minerva, Winifred, Wilhelmina or Amelia. That is, of course, Mennie is not a spelling mistake from way back when. I have only found one Mennie Fletcher on Scotlands People born 01/11/1802 to an Angus Fletcher & Margaret Baxter. Of course, any help with this family tree is always welcome especially for Bronwen, as long as we get it right.

Regards
Mike
Fletcher, Lofthouse, Tressider, Dale, McAllister, Beaton, McInnes, Comrie

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Fletcher born in
« Reply #30 on: Monday 13 August 18 17:32 BST (UK) »
Yes, Menie I believe is a spelling mistake of Mennie which originates from Gaelic/early Irish modern meaning wealthy.
There is no such thing as 'correct' spelling until the 20th century. Therefore no spelling of a name is a 'mistake'.

According to Mackenzie's Scots Gaelic dictionary the Gaelic for 'wealthy' is 'beairteaich' or 'saibhir'. According to my Irish Gaelic dictionary it is 'saibhir'. However the Scots Gaelic dictionary also lists 'maoin' as a 'hoard', or 'wealth worshipped'.

www.whatsinaname.net does not mention Menie or Mennie. 

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We are looking for a Mennie Fletcher, not a Minnie Fletcher which we know is short for Mary but also for Minerva, Winifred, Wilhelmina or Amelia.
I disagree. From the many variations in the lady's name in later records, it is plain enough that Menie is only one version of her name.

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That is, of course, Mennie is not a spelling mistake from way back when.
See above. There is no such thing as a 'mistake' at that time.

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I have only found one Mennie Fletcher on Scotlands People born 01/11/1802 to an Angus Fletcher & Margaret Baxter.
Do not make the classic error of assuming that the only one in the records is the right one. The further back you go, the more events are missing from the surviving records.

Bronwen has seen the death certificate which names the parents of her Menie/Mennie/Meady/Minnie/Mary/Marjory as Ebenezer Fletcher and Elizabeth Erskine. The census consistently says that she was born in Edinburgh/Midlothian.

Therefore she is not the one born in Kilmodan to Angus Fletcher and Margaret Baxter, and it serves no useful purpose to go on dragging that one into the discussions.

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline BronwenS

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Re: Fletcher born in
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 15 August 18 22:09 BST (UK) »
Hi

I have re-looked at what I have and thought it best to post it here for clarification - as you can see Mennie Fletcher had many names at different times - these are all documents I have sited.

I have also attached the 1871 census which says she came from Edinburgh.

many thanks for all your help.
Bronwen ChCh NZ

James Brock husband of Mennie/Mary Fletcher
b.1791 May 20 Gorbals, Lanarkshire
m.1832 March 14 Mennie Fletcher 
d.1866 July 1 aged 78, 48 Muir Street, paralysis for 19 days, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland, weaver, son Alexander Brock, Withall St No. 4 Glasgow signed (reg.)
Census
1832 cotton weaver at time of marriage
1841 James 50, cotton hand loom weaver, Meady Fletcher 40 (not born in county), John 22 cotton hand loom weaver, James 9, Alexander 6, Jean 3 and Betty Reid a tambourer.  All living at Lamb St, Gorbals, Lanark
1851 James 60, Mary 50 weaver’s wife, John 32, Betty 22 weaver’s daughter, Alexander 19, James 16, Jane 10.  All males listed are weavers. Father and children all born in Hamilton (Mary was born in Edinburgh) 23 Quarry Road,
1861 James 70, hand loom silk weaver, Margot 63 Pirn winder - someone who wound the yarn onto large wheel like bobbins which were then used to feed the cotton wheels hand loom cotton, Alexander 26 hand loom cotton weaver.  11 John Street, Lanark

Mennie/Mary/Marjory/Meady/Margot Fletcher wife of James Brock and mother of Jane Brock
b.1795 - 1799
m.1822 July 7 Robert Wright, Hamilton (reg.)     (Marjory)
m.1832 March 14 James Brock, cotton weaver (reg.)  (Menie)
d.1872 June 8, 7 Portland Place, Hamilton, 72 years old, died of chronic bronchitis, widow of James Brock, silk weaver, signed by son Alexander Brock, 4 Whitehall Street, Glasgow (reg.)  Whitehall Street was in the Anderston district, west of the city centre 
Children 5 (can’t find on Scotland’s people) this information from the census
1818 John Brock, Hamilton, Scotland, m.Barbara Forrest, c.1853 James Brock m.Susan Dickie, Ontario, Canada, their relatives moved to Michigan, USA
1829 Betty Brock, Hamilton, Scotland
1832 James Brock, Hamilton, Scotland
1835 Alexander Brock, Hamilton, Scotland
1839 Jane Brock, Hamilton, Scotland – her death certificate says her mother was Marjory Brock, previously Fletcher and Wright
Census
1871 Marjory Brock, 2 Leechlee Street, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, (modern building) widow aged 69 born in Edinburgh (reg.)
Campbell, McKenzie, Ross, MacKay, Munro, Sutherland all of Ross & Comarty
Barry, Gibson, Watson, Summers, Edmonstone, Brock, McCartney all of Glasgow and environs
Erskine, Fletcher of Edinburgh

Offline BronwenS

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Re: Fletcher born in
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 18 August 18 21:45 BST (UK) »
Hi Mike

I don't think some of what you have added to the tree is correct.  I have the following around the Summers family and I ahve registers for some of these people.  I suppose how you determine who is the right John Summers (born 1832) for his birth is an issue?

My results come from Scotland's People.  Have you seen registers for the ones you have put in?

Regards and thanks Bronwen

1811 SUMMERS
Mark Summers husband of Isabella Edmiston
b.1811 Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland (illegitimate son of Janet Barry who was a domestic servant) 
m.1828 June Isabella Edmiston, Hamilton, Scotland - Banns read on 18, 25 May & 1 June (Banns register to hand)
d.1874 aged 63 died of bronchitis which he had had for 6 months, died at 46 Quarry Road, his son John was present, John lived at 7 Portland Place (reg.)
Census
1841 Mark labourer 25, Isabella 25, Jean 10 tambourer, Janet 4, John 2, Church St, Hamilton (census to hand)
1851 Mark handloom weaver 46, Isabella 40 tambourer, Jane 21 hand loom weaver, John 11 hand loom weaver, Isabella 5, Charles 2 (census to hand) 
1861 Mark cotton weaver, Isabella both aged 50, Mark 7, Isabella 3 (census to hand)
1871 Mark silk weaver, Isabella both 60, Mark 18 Pit bankman, Isabella 14 Silk weaver. 46 Quarry Road (census to hand)

Isabella/Isobel Edmonstone wife of Mark Summers and mother of John Summers
b.1811 Sept 24 Barony, Lanarkshie, Scotland (searched)
m.1828 May 18 Hamilton, Scotland, Mark Summers (register - Edmiston)
d.1888 Oct 11 aged 76, Village of Motherwell, Parish of Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland, John McArthur son-in-law was present and signed, heart disease for 6 months, senile debility, husband dead, gas worker & labourer (reg.)
Children 8
1829 Sept 13 Jean Summers, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
1830 Jane Summers, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
1831 Jean Summers, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
1832 May 17 b.June 7 John Summers, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland (reg.)
1837 Janet Summers, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
1845 Isabella Summers died of scarlet fever in 20 Oct 1856 aged 11 at 7 Hope street, Hamilton, Parish Church Yard, Hamilton, Lanarkshire John Summers made his mark (reg.)
1848 Charles Summers
1853 Mark Summers, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland, pit bankman at 18
1857 June 9 Isabella Summers, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland, silk weaver at 14

John Summers husband of Jane Brock
b.1832 May 17 bap 7 Hamilton, Lanarkshire (reg.)
m.1859 June 10 Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Jane Brock who lived at 10 John Street and John Summers Quarry Street, Hamilton, Scotland, he signed, she made her mark (reg.)
d.1918 Nov 16 aged 83, 87 Low Water, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland, William Russell son-in-law present lived at 62 Low water (reg.)
Census
1841 Mark labourer 25, Isabella 25, Jean 10 tambourer, Janet 4, John 2, Church St, Hamilton (census to hand)
1851 John living with parents, hand loom weaver aged 11
1861 John 22 Hand loom cotton weaver, Jane 23 cotton tambourer, Margaret 1, 12 John Street, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
1871 John 37 pit headman, Jane 32, Marjory 11 silkweaver, Isabella 8, Mark 6, Elizabeth 3, James 1, 13 Quarry Rd, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland (census to hand)
1874 7 Portland Place, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland (death of father, Mark)
1881 Pit headman, 5 Mansfield, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland - Robert Brock brother-in-law a painter was living with John and Jane (Brock) Summers
1891 Coal Pit headman, 87 Maryfield, Low Water, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
1901 Mansfield cottages, Low Water, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
1911 Pit headman in colliery, 77 years old, 87 Maryfield Low Water, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland (census to hand)



Campbell, McKenzie, Ross, MacKay, Munro, Sutherland all of Ross & Comarty
Barry, Gibson, Watson, Summers, Edmonstone, Brock, McCartney all of Glasgow and environs
Erskine, Fletcher of Edinburgh

Offline fletch001

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Re: Fletcher born in
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 21 August 18 09:23 BST (UK) »
Bronwen,
These are the correct ones, I have now seen them on Scotlands People and have updated the tree. Getting slightly mixed up with all the Brocks/Summers/Sommers and other information from elsewhere. Still stuck on the Margory Fletcher who married Robert Wright first on 07 Jul 1822, (date from Scotlands People) before marrying James Brock. Still searching when in my spare time.
Regards
Mike
Fletcher, Lofthouse, Tressider, Dale, McAllister, Beaton, McInnes, Comrie