Author Topic: Pochin of Barkby coat of arms  (Read 4904 times)

Offline MacGrigor

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Re: Pochin of Barkby coat of arms
« Reply #9 on: Monday 16 October 17 19:55 BST (UK) »
I'm not claiming any as my own, I'm just assembling some for a file about extended family who have gone on to be granted arms.
Lipman family of Aldgate - ends with Lewis Lipman (d. 1871, Bethnal Green), son of John Lipman 'late of Glasgow' (1856)
McGregor family of Fodderty - ends with Alexander McGregor (b. 1765, Fodderty), son of Murdoch McGregor and Kate Stewart

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Pochin of Barkby coat of arms
« Reply #10 on: Monday 16 October 17 20:10 BST (UK) »
Please remember that there is no such thing as a "family" coat-of-arms!

I must take issue with you on this point. Ten years ago the College stopped enforcing the use of cadency marks to difference arms within a family, saying it was "purely an internal family matter". So the granted arms stopped being individual and became family arms.

The announcement was made by Garter in the December 2007 edition of The Heraldry Gazette.

It is quite right to say that there are no 'arms of the name', but there are certainly 'arms of the family'.

Regards

Chas
Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Pochin of Barkby coat of arms
« Reply #11 on: Monday 16 October 17 20:14 BST (UK) »
Blewet (Lincolnshire). Ar. a fesse gu. in chief three lozenges of the second (another, sa.).

I  have done both as Burke had conflicting sources.
Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia

Offline MacGrigor

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Re: Pochin of Barkby coat of arms
« Reply #12 on: Monday 16 October 17 20:16 BST (UK) »
Thank you very much!
Lipman family of Aldgate - ends with Lewis Lipman (d. 1871, Bethnal Green), son of John Lipman 'late of Glasgow' (1856)
McGregor family of Fodderty - ends with Alexander McGregor (b. 1765, Fodderty), son of Murdoch McGregor and Kate Stewart


Offline KGarrad

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Re: Pochin of Barkby coat of arms
« Reply #13 on: Monday 16 October 17 20:24 BST (UK) »
Please remember that there is no such thing as a "family" coat-of-arms!

I must take issue with you on this point. Ten years ago the College stopped enforcing the use of cadency marks to difference arms within a family, saying it was "purely an internal family matter". So the granted arms stopped being individual and became family arms.

The announcement was made by Garter in the December 2007 edition of The Heraldry Gazette.

It is quite right to say that there are no 'arms of the name', but there are certainly 'arms of the family'.

Regards

Chas

But in order to use a particular arms, you have to prove direct descent in the male line from the armiger?

Think how difficult that is if your surname is Smith or Jones?

(The arms I use as an avatar, were used in the 17th century by one John Garrad, whose line became extinct. I only use the arms, rather than the full achievement! ;D)
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Pochin of Barkby coat of arms
« Reply #14 on: Monday 16 October 17 21:14 BST (UK) »

But in order to use a particular arms, you have to prove direct descent in the male line from the armiger?

Think how difficult that is if your surname is Smith or Jones?

(The arms I use as an avatar, were used in the 17th century by one John Garrad, whose line became extinct. I only use the arms, rather than the full achievement! ;D )

If the main line dies out a cadet line takes on the arms  (undifferenced). A prime example of this is the Duke of Wellington. He was the younger son and bore a mark of difference on his arms. As he became more famous he dropped the difference and used the undifferenced arms - at the same time as his brother (the rightful heir) was using them. The older brother conveniently died without issue, which allowed the Duke to carry on as if he had no brother.

In the 19th century and into the 20th a 'Name and Arms clause' was quite common. A rich man with arms, but no son, would put the clause in his will. If his duaghter's future husband changed his name to the armiger's, the husband would inherit the arms and usually a large fortune. Some single men, with no children, when contemplating their own mortality would arrange to have a 'Ward'. The ward would be raised as if it were the armiger's own. If it was a girl, then the name and arms clause would appear in the will. If it was a boy, he would  be adopted and inherit the arms. There is at least one case of a man changing his name twice after his wife died so as to inherit further arms - and money, of course!

The arms I use as an avatar are mine de jure.

Regards

Chas
Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia

Offline MacGrigor

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Re: Pochin of Barkby coat of arms
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 28 June 18 12:11 BST (UK) »
RE the arms for the Pochin family of Barkby Hall, is it known when they were granted and to whom?
Lipman family of Aldgate - ends with Lewis Lipman (d. 1871, Bethnal Green), son of John Lipman 'late of Glasgow' (1856)
McGregor family of Fodderty - ends with Alexander McGregor (b. 1765, Fodderty), son of Murdoch McGregor and Kate Stewart