Author Topic: Birth Registers at GRO....what am I doing wrong ?  (Read 3143 times)

Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Birth Registers at GRO....what am I doing wrong ?
« Reply #9 on: Monday 16 October 17 19:35 BST (UK) »
But how can BMD have a reference and GRO not ?

Probably because you are looking at two different indexes, compiled at different times,  and using different indexing rules.

The  GRO indexes are not a copy of the old version, they are new(ish) and taken direct from the register copies they have, so should be more accurate.  The rules they used to build the index are not the same rules that were used to create the printed indexes you see on FreeBMD (and pay sites). They are especially different in the way they deal with unmarried parents who both appear, and also how they determine the maiden name of the mother (...the new GRO index does it correctly, the FreeBMD index doesn't).

Because the rules are different, the indexes are bound to be different - and then you can add in the error factor in both......complicated !


Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Birth Registers at GRO....what am I doing wrong ?
« Reply #10 on: Monday 16 October 17 19:38 BST (UK) »
I suspect that the two births in question were illegitimate and that for the original index that FreeBMD are working from the children were double-indexed under both the father's and mother's surnames.


This may well be the reason ....

You can only know by getting the certificates - trying to confirm links from the indexes (in either version) relies on making assumptions that can sometimes be wrong.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Birth Registers at GRO....what am I doing wrong ?
« Reply #11 on: Monday 16 October 17 20:09 BST (UK) »
My 3xGGPs had a son, born 1841, 2 years before they married. The baby died, aged 6 months. His birth is indexed on Lancashire BMD under both surnames. GRO Births Index has him under father's name, not mother's. GRO Deaths Index has him under mother's surname, as does Lancashire BMD. He was baptised and buried with his mother's surname. No mention of his father in parish register.
Will I need birth certificate as proof to amend GRO index?
Cowban

Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Birth Registers at GRO....what am I doing wrong ?
« Reply #12 on: Monday 16 October 17 20:38 BST (UK) »
My 3xGGPs had a son, born 1841, 2 years before they married. The baby died, aged 6 months. His birth is indexed on Lancashire BMD under both surnames. GRO Births Index has him under father's name, not mother's. GRO Deaths Index has him under mother's surname, as does Lancashire BMD. He was baptised and buried with his mother's surname. No mention of his father in parish register.
Will I need birth certificate as proof to amend GRO index?

You can only ask for an amendment if it has been indexed incorrectly - which bit do you think is wrong ?


Offline Jon_ni

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Re: Birth Registers at GRO....what am I doing wrong ?
« Reply #13 on: Monday 16 October 17 21:34 BST (UK) »
Quote
Will I need birth certificate as proof to amend GRO index

if you order the GRO birth index you will likely find that the GRO index is correct and will show Child's first name, son of Father's name and Mother's name. The GRO births index's are under the fathers name if listed and the mother's surname if no father is listed. Remember the GRO birth certs are in the format Thomas/ John/Mary etc son or daughter of ... they do not specificly record the child's surname.
Anyone is free to change their name subsequently eg Cat Stevens or Prince and eg be married as such. After all it is by tradition not law that a wife commonly adopts her husband's surname. But their birth index remains unchanged.

Just like FreeBMD if the GRO index is re-checked and is indeed transcribed correctly and includes a father they will not alter the GRO index to agree with the surname he was subsequently baptised or buried as. Obviously your 3xGGF stood by the child and mother and subsequently married but the church record perhaps reflects the fact that the minister knew the child was illegitimate and not born following holy matrimony in his church, not something the GRO register was concerned about.
Be interesting to see if the father or mother (or a relation) registered the birth.

Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Birth Registers at GRO....what am I doing wrong ?
« Reply #14 on: Monday 16 October 17 22:06 BST (UK) »
Be interesting to see if the father or mother (or a relation) registered the birth.

That is an important point - often the most crucial part of a birth certificate when you are interpreting it is what is in the informant column ( and of course you can't see that in the index at all).

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Birth Registers at GRO....what am I doing wrong ?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 17 October 17 10:42 BST (UK) »

SAINT, EMMA      -    Order 
GRO Reference: 1844  M Quarter in STEPNEY  Volume 02  Page 546 
WALKER, EMMA  JANE       HUGHES    Order 
GRO Reference: 1844  D Quarter in STEPNEY  Volume 02  Page 456 

Is the variant page number your mistake or the GRO's ?  Though the quarter is different so it's probably correct ....  ::)
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

Offline BumbleB

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Re: Birth Registers at GRO....what am I doing wrong ?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 17 October 17 10:55 BST (UK) »

SAINT, EMMA      -    Order 
GRO Reference: 1844  M Quarter in STEPNEY  Volume 02  Page 546 
WALKER, EMMA  JANE       HUGHES    Order 
GRO Reference: 1844  D Quarter in STEPNEY  Volume 02  Page 456 

Is the variant page number your mistake or the GRO's ?  Though the quarter is different so it's probably correct ....  ::)

I think you will find that there is an entry for Emma Jane Walker in the MARCH quarter of 1844 with the page number of 546 - mmn is Tarrent. 

Emma Saint - page 546 in MARCH quarter 1844 - mmn = no entry

Page No:  456 applies to a birth registered in the DECEMBER quarter of 1844 for Emma Jane Walker  - mmn is Hughes.
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline BumbleB

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Re: Birth Registers at GRO....what am I doing wrong ?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 17 October 17 11:47 BST (UK) »
Possibly for elimination purposes.

Emma Jane Walker - registered December quarter 1844 - mmn = Hughes

Emma Jane - daughter of Robert Dalzell Walker (Coal Merchant) and Elizabeth Rachel of Limehouse, born 26 October 1844, baptised 19 November 1848 - St Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney.  A number of siblings were baptised on the same day.

St Mary, Whitechapel - 25 December 1841 - by Banns
Robert Dalzell Walker, full age, Lath Cutter.  Father:  George Dalzell Walker
Elizabeth Rachel Hughes, full age.  Father:  William Hughes, Steward
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY