Author Topic: Martha Cox 1881 Census; Albert Edward Cox/Collins on passenger records 1896?  (Read 2425 times)

Offline Annette7

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Re: Martha Cox 1881 Census; Albert Edward Cox/Collins on passenger records 1896?
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 18 October 17 14:00 BST (UK) »
I agree with Millmoor - Albert Edward Collings, son of Frederick Charles Collings and Martha Hannam (married William James Cox 1880 after death of FCC) who married 1865, is not your man I'm afraid.   (1881 census spelling of Collins is wrong and should read Collings).

Albert Edward Collings, son of Frederick Charles Collings, married Mary Ann Court 24/11/1894 Stepney and they are together on 1901/1911 census so definitely not 'your' man.

Back to the drawing board I'm afraid.

Annette
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Annette7

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Re: Martha Cox 1881 Census; Albert Edward Cox/Collins on passenger records 1896?
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 18 October 17 16:10 BST (UK) »
There is a army service record for an Albert Edward Collins b.1874 Kenwin, Truro, Cornwall per FindMyPast - however, since he was aged 18 years 6 months when he enlisted 28/4/1890 this makes him born late 1871 not 1874!

1. There is no birth entry for anyone with these details, nor a sighting on census in name of Collins.  So, I would concur with ShaunJ in that the birth entry for an Albert Edward Cock Dec.qtr.1871 Truro might well be the person you are looking for.   Again, no trace of this person either with surname Cock on census.    I feel there is some kind of story here!

2. The service record states that Albert Edward Collins served in the Bechuanaland Border Police during the Matabele Campaign from 18/10/1893 to 2/3/1894.   This makes a likely candidate for your man.   His next of kin when he enlisted was given as a sister, Mrs. Kate Cox, 82 St. James Road, Forest Gate, London (regn district for Forest Gate is West Ham) but, alas, there were no Cox's living at that address on the 1891 census. I've tried looking for Kate/Catherine/Katherine Cock/Collins married to a Cox and can't come up with anything likely.

Certainly, my next obvious step would be to get the birth certificate of Albert Edward Cock 1871 Truro to see what information it contains - mmn on GRO index states Woodcott but this doesn't seem to be a common name in Cornwall and wonder if it should read Woolcott.   However, cannot find any Woodcott/Woolcott married to a Cock/Collins either.    As already said, I think there is a story here as most mysterious in that Albert cannot be found as Cock/Collins in 1881 and cannot see a likely sister Kate/Catherine/Katherine either.

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
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Offline Milliepede

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Re: Martha Cox 1881 Census; Albert Edward Cox/Collins on passenger records 1896?
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 18 October 17 22:40 BST (UK) »
Just in case there is any Woolcott link there is a James Woolcott born Kenwyn Cornwall 1829.

In 1881 he is in London with wife Mary 60 daughter Cora 26 domestic servant and son Robert 22 carpenter

Interestingly in 1871 the surname is Woolcock as are births for the children
Robert is Rupert in 1871.

 
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline lucymags

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Re: Martha Cox 1881 Census; Albert Edward Cox/Collins on passenger records 1896?
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 19 October 17 02:59 BST (UK) »
Thanks very much, peeps. That is somewhat disappointing but at least that's one avenue ruled out, if he's definitely with Mary Ann in 1901 and 1911. (I have now found some Electoral Roll entries via Family Search for Albert Edward Collings at Lower Charles St - no longer there, but near Meredith St in Islingon, 19010-12 - renting a single room, no mention of a wife??; but there's also an Alfred Edward Collins also on electoral roll at Florence St, Depford (and another at Newington Causeway). I don't know. I give up there. I suppose the names were fairly common.)

Back to the matter in hand. Yes, there's definitely some kind of story behind this. The details on Albert's 3rd son Cecil are somewhat odd too: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q7rzg92pgyj59sn/Cock-Collins%2C%20Cecil%20-%20birth%20cert.%201904-07-20.pdf?dl=0

The parents were apparently temporarily in London. (I haven't found any passenger records of their transit, and presumably they would have had two other infants with them?!). As you can see, the mother's address is given as 146 Caistor Park Road, and the baby born at 20 Corporation St, about half a mile away. It's all most peculiar. They were back in Cape Town by 1907 at the latest, when the 4th son was born.

Annette - that service record in the Bechuanaland Police does sound promising, seeing that he is named variously as Constable, Sergeant and Police Inspector on various sons' birth certificate. I will digest this information and work out how to go about getting a birth certificate for the Truro Cock. (Is it worth my posting requests for further information in the Cornwall forum, do you think?)

Another interesting thing to note is that Cecil is given the 3rd name Hopecook (which I think is a misspelled version of Hopecock, which I came across somewhere else along the way) - but on all later documentation I have, inlcuding his death certificate, his 3rd name was Christopher, by the age of 23. However, the header information given on this site here: http://www.ancestor.co.za/COCK-COLLINS, which refers to his death, says "CECIL SIDNEY CHRISTOPHER    COCK-COLLINS         ALSO KNOWN AS CECIL SIDNEY HOPECOCK COLLINS    1952".


Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Martha Cox 1881 Census; Albert Edward Cox/Collins on passenger records 1896?
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 19 October 17 07:51 BST (UK) »
Quote
the mother's address is given as 146 Caistor Park Road,

Another possible Kenwyn connection! Arthur Kilonback moved to 146 Caistor Park Road sometime after 1901. His wife Ellen (born Ellen Leavers circa 1860) was from Liskeard in Cornwall. Her family was in Kenwyn in the 1861 census.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lucymags

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Re: Martha Cox 1881 Census; Albert Edward Cox/Collins on passenger records 1896?
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 19 October 17 08:13 BST (UK) »
Quote
the mother's address is given as 146 Caistor Park Road,

Another possible Kenwyn connection! Arthur Kilonback moved to 146 Caistor Park Road sometime after 1901. His wife Ellen (born Ellen Leavers circa 1860) was from Liskeard in Cornwall. Her family was in Kenwyn in the 1861 census.

Ooh, thanks, ShaunJ! That is exciting! Definitely getting warmer now! I will have to concentrate the mind on trying to piece this together and re-examine what I have to see if there are any other clues. I haven't quite got my head around all of what we have yet...

(Edit: I got sidetracked googling the Bechuanaland Border Police - another whole lot of history of which I am mostly ignorant - and discovered this document which tells us that on 1st April 1893, there was a total of 395 troops in the force. http://libsysdigi.library.illinois.edu/ilharvest/Africana/Books2011-05/466540/466540_1893_1894/466540_1893_1894_opt.pdf.)

Offline Annette7

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Re: Martha Cox 1881 Census; Albert Edward Cox/Collins on passenger records 1896?
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 19 October 17 21:51 BST (UK) »
Believe I have found the family of Albert Edward Cock b.Dec.qtr.1874 Truro - mmn Woodcott (on GRO Index but believe as I suggested before that it should read 'Woollcott').

James Cock bc.1834 Kenwyn, Truro, Cornwall married Emily Woollcott Dec.qtr.1862 Islington - 3 children born:

Emily Kate Jane Cock b.4/5/1864 Clerkenwell (Islington)
Frederick William Cock birth Jun.1866 Clerkenwell
James Woollcott Cock birth Dec.1869 Truro, death Sept.qtr.1870 Truro

Mothers maiden name on all 3 births is Woollcott.

In 1871 family are in Kenwyn, Cornwall where Albert Edward Cock was born later that year.

Sometime between 1871 and 1879 family returned to London where father James Cock died 1879 Islington.

Then what happened?   I can't find any of the family on the census after James' death 1879. 

I did wonder if daughter Emily Kate Jane b.1864 was possible the 'Kate Cox' shown on the army service record but although I found a possible marriage for her - as Emily Kate Cock - it was to a William Edward Collins in Mar.qtr.1884 Chelsea - married 26/1/1884 Kensal Green.   Yes, Collins just to muddy the waters somewhat!   Her father was shown as James though can't read his occupation.

So, where on earth was the family in 1881 (2 years after James' death in Islington)?  I simply can't find them.  Obviously, can't be sure that Emily Kate Jane was the Emily Kate who married Wm.Ed. Collins either.

If, however, Albert Edward Cock-Collins is ultimately judged to be the Albert Edward Collins born 1871 Kenwyn, Truro on army service record then the Albert Edward Cock born Dec.1871 Truro seems a very strong contender to me.   The only thing 'throwing' me is the Kate Cox shown as sister on the army record.

Annette

PS - regarding them not appearing in UK incoming/outgoing immigration records I believe that army personnel didn't always appear in these records - although a policeman perhaps Albert was still employed with the army which could account for it.
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lucymags

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Re: Martha Cox 1881 Census; Albert Edward Cox/Collins on passenger records 1896?
« Reply #16 on: Friday 20 October 17 07:32 BST (UK) »
Wow, thanks Annette - that's a goldmine of information which I believe does show very plausible links, following the definitive one to the Kenwyn link with the London address. Tricky about Kate Cox though.

It's a bit odd and sounds a bit as if someone was trying to muddy the waters deliberately. Perhaps Albert didn't like his surname (perhaps because of the slang usage, which apparently has a long history!)? Is the husband of Emily Kate Cock being a Collins just a coincidence? Perhaps he adopted his brother-in-law's name after his own, then didn't want to name his married sister as having such a similar surname (Collins) as him?

I haven't been able to find any references to Cock-Collins in the UK Archives, although of course there are plenty of Cocks and Collinses. (I think I checked and none matched Albert Edward.)

How would I go about trying to obtain a copy of the birth certificate of Albert Edward Cock? Google brings me to this site: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ - is this the best way to obtain them?

Now I just have to try to put it all together and see if I can locate any further information via original records.

(Is there any point in my posting in the Cornwall section of this forum at the point where I hit the wall - or have all of the available likely resources been covered by all of you helpful people already?)

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Martha Cox 1881 Census; Albert Edward Cox/Collins on passenger records 1896?
« Reply #17 on: Friday 20 October 17 12:05 BST (UK) »
The 1891 census for York Infantry Barracks has Andrew Collins, private, aged 20, born Kerwin Cornwall. This must be Albert.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk