which son died?

[Jill Eaton]

From looking at the 1911 census I'm aware that My gt grandparents Cornelius Harrington and Mary (nee Williams) had 6 children and that one of them was dead by 1911. "Total children born alive - 6
Children still living - 5. Children who have died - 1"

I knew the names of all of their children except the one they lost

I received a birth certificate today. Cornelius Harrington (I'll call him little Cornelius) born 20 Dec 1900 St Marylebone. London.

The other children were
Hannah Mary - 1886
John James - 28 August 1889
James - 1893
Mary -1898
Patrick - 1903

So little Cornelius fits between Mary and Patrick.

I expected to find him on the 1901 census but he isn't there.

He isn't on the 1911 census with his parents but then neither are any of the other children. Mary and Patrick were in Industrial schools. The older children are all adults.

I assumed he was the child that died. The only death that seemed to fit between his birth in 1900 and the 1911 census was for a five year old at St Olave, Bermondsey, in 1906. I hadn't received his birth certificate when I ordered the death certificate so didn't know his exact date of birth. The family did eventually end up living in St Olave so it was a reasonable assumption.

However, the death certificate is for a Cornelius Harrington born February 1906. The son of a THOMAS Harrington. So I have the wrong child born to the wrong father.

I can account for Hannah Mary, James, Mary and Patrick as adults, years after the 1911 census but I don't know what happened to John James.

So when DID little Cornelius die and was it him or John James who died before 1911?

[[Ray]]

Hi Jill

There is a birth of another child who looks like she may be related?

Ellen Harrington (mmn Williams) 1896 QJ Lambeth 1d 344

What do you know about her?

Ray

Ooh, AND
Agnes            HARRINGTON [ mmn WILLIAMS ] 1892 QJ Stepney 1c 440
Mary Theresa HARRINGTON [ mmn WILLIAMS ] 1883 QM Stepney 1c 459

Am aware of a few other Harrington/Williams offspring in other parts of the country.

 

[LizzieW]

I've found that now GRO shows mother's maiden name on all births from 1837 onwards, the easiest way to search for the "missing" children is search on the GRO site. I just put surname and mother's maiden name.  It takes some time because you have to search for male and female separately and in 2 years either side of the year you quote.  However, as it's free to search you don't have to spend money on certificates.

www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

You can also search for deaths but that doesn't show mother's maiden name.

[Jill Eaton]

Hi Jill

There is a birth of another child who looks like she may be related?

Ellen Harrington (mmn Williams) 1896 QJ Lambeth 1d 344

What do you know about her?

Ray

Ooh, AND
Agnes            HARRINGTON [ mmn WILLIAMS ] 1892 QJ Stepney 1c 440
Mary Theresa HARRINGTON [ mmn WILLIAMS ] 1883 QM Stepney 1c 459

Am aware of a few other Harrington/Williams offspring in other parts of the country.

Mary and Cornelius didn't marry until 1884, Which doesn't mean they couldn't have had children before their marriage of course. They married in Westminster and their first two children were born there. Children 3 and 4 were born in Canning Town and then back to Marylebone for little Cornelius and Patrick. The Ellen Harrington is a possibility through and I should order a certificate. There is a distinct naming pattern through the family. Ellen was the name of Cornelius (elder) mother.

Unfortunately they didn't seem to stay in an area for very long and they did move around London as Cornelius was a builders labourer. He appears to have followed whatever work was available. This makes tracking the birth of children more tricky.

Harrington, whilst obviously not a rare name, appears to belong to mostly those of Irish catholic background in poorer areas and my Harrington/Williams marriage and baptisms are all catholic so I'm wondering if other Williams/Harrington marriages/children are also Irish/RC relationships too?

I've found a lot of Sullivan/Harrington relationships too. Not necessarily all the same families but from Irish backgrounds.

[Jill Eaton]

There is a death for an Ellen Harrington age 0 in West Ham in 1896

James was born in Canning Town, West Ham in 1893
Mary was born in Canning Town in 1898

so the family were definitely in the area at the time of Ellen's death. However, it seems odd she was born in Lambeth?


If Ellen IS their child then Cornelius can't be. That would be 7 children from the marriage. I'd be confident they did state the correct number of children they'd had on the 1911 census if they'd actually got their own ages correct

So now the conundrum is Ellen also a child from their marriage? Or is little Cornelius, despite his birth certificate stating his mother's name is Mary Williams and his father being Cornelius Harrington, from another Harrington/Williams marriage?

[heywood]

What is the address on baby Cornelius’ birth certificate? Doe it fit with the family and the occupation of father?

I can’t see a likely entry in 1901 but there is a Cornelius in 1911 who could be a possibility

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWDD-9H7

Are there any social records from the industrial schools?

[LizzieW]

Check out the GRO births that will give mother's maiden name.  The only problem will be, as I found out, if another person with the same maiden name is having children in the same area as your ancestor.  Otherwise, it's fairly foolproof.

[Jill Eaton]

Check out the GRO births that will give mother's maiden name.  The only problem will be, as I found out, if another person with the same maiden name is having children in the same area as your ancestor.  Otherwise, it's fairly foolproof.

Lizzie, I've been using this site as an alternative to the various other BMD sites because the mother's name is listed.

Yes, it can cause a degree of confusion, but it's a great improvement on ordering certificates simply on the off chance you've got the correct mother without knowing her surname isn't it?

[Jill Eaton]

What is the address on baby Cornelius’ birth certificate? Doe it fit with the family and the occupation of father?

The address for Cornelius in 1900 is 27 Shouldham Street, St Mary, Marylebone. Father Builders Laborer.

The address for the family on the 1901 census is Brown Street, Marylebone

The address for Patrick in 1903 is 5 Wyndham Street, St Mary, Marylebone. Father Builders Laborer.

Looking on a map. These 3 addresses follow a route and are about a 7 minute walk away from each other.

It would be an unfortunate, not to mention flipping irritating, coincidence if two entirely separate families had mothers with exactly the same Christian name, maiden name, father's name and occupation so I'm as certain as anyone can be from looking at certificates that they are the same family.

They didn't own a house and moved so many times!